Thatcher's Politicial Legacy.

[Admiral Yi]

I think Yi means anyone he doesn't approve of.

But if it's a firefighter who saves him from an electrical fire, caused by an untested, grey imported inadequately made heater, then that guy isn't working for a handout.

But obviously the laid off woman who used to work at the government 'trading standards'/public safety body, was in receipt of a hand-out and so had to be let go, to make a leaner fitter government.   

You're a twit.

[citizen k]

I hate him because he is a twit and a Limey. He can get back on the banana boat.

[citizen k]

I think Yi means anyone he doesn't approve of.   

You're a twit.

[Admiral Yi]

Is it if a company is making a loss, all wages paid are a handout? (so by bringing the company into profitability, no handouts are given out)

I missed this one.

A loss making private company pays wages in the hope/expectation that conditions will improve, not as an act of charity.  Not a handout.

[Josquius]

The negative is the money you take from somebody else to give to the profitable company.

If its profitable why are you giving them money?

Not sure how you get a situation where 500 money losing jobs are supporting 5,000 money making jobs. 

Its pretty common in the world at large- doctors, fire fighters, the police, etc....

But to give a more direct and relevant to the subject answer.
I'm sure I've written something similar before but...imagine a town with 10,000 people, one of its major employers is a factory that employs 500 people. The government decides since that factory is losing money it needs to be closed down.

• It's a pretty reasonable assumption that more than those 500 people actually working at the factory depend on it for their livlihood. To be conservative we're probally talking another 1000 people, assuming every factory worker has a non-working wife and a kid (big assumption but a fair thing to average out at)
• Lots of small businesses operate almost purely by serving that factory. The catering firm which delivers sandwiches to the factory, the pub by the factory gates, parts and materials suppliers, etc... So another few hundred jobs gone there
• Shops, taxi firms, restaurants, etc... in the town have now lost 2,000 people  (depends exactly how much supporting industry the factory has, could be a lot less than 500, is probally a lot more, albeit not all in this one town) from the wealthier segment of their customer base. Even assuming the other 8,000 are all working and not retired, already unemployed, children, etc... a 1/5 drop in customers could be pretty dodgy, some will survive but some will go under, and with them going under those that remain will have customers with even less to spend
• Now the factory has gone maybe the railway link serving the town is deemed unecessary and closed. Now people can't get to/from the town for work.
• Now the town is dying it is perhaps seen as less important and companies are less inclined to expand there, especially given its bad transport links now the railway is gone. A caring government could mitigate this with offering a lot of incentives for investing in such deprived areas, others (MT) half arse it, if they care at all.
• Where before a wife of the factory workers might technically be counted as employed due to being a full time home maker she now has to start looking for a job herself and starts taking unemployment benefits

So many ways things could unravel by removing one key part of a local economy.

[Admiral Yi]

If its profitable why are you giving them money?

Dude, that was my question to you.

Continued government support for the profit making parts of the industries is a no brainer

[Josquius]

Dude, that was my question to you.

Support doesn't just mean throwing money at them.

[jimmy olsen]

Is that really a bad thing though?  Ethnic diversity is something of a bad thing for a society.

It is bad if what you wanted was a British Empire that was going to endure and be a positive force in the world.  It would have had to become everybody's empire not just those people living in Blighty.  Eventually there would have had to be Indian politicians running it and so forth, just like the Illyrian9s running the Roman Empire.  They toyed with that idea several times, in fact it was Benjamin Franklin's grand vision back when he supported it, but it never really took hold.

That idea was doomed as soon as they fucked up with America and we rebelled.

With America they British Empire would still bestride the world like a collosus.

[Jacob]

If the employer is private and receiving money from the government, it's a handout.  If the condition of the money is continued employment of X workers, the workers are getting a handout.  If the the condition is about production (i.e. a production subsidy), it's a handout to the consumers of the company's product.  If there are no strings attached, it's a handout to the owners.

Does changing the accounting make it less of a handout? I.e. if the money comes in the form of a tax credit, does it make it not a handout?

[Jacob]

Is it if a company is making a loss, all wages paid are a handout? (so by bringing the company into profitability, no handouts are given out)

I missed this one.

A loss making private company pays wages in the hope/expectation that conditions will improve, not as an act of charity.  Not a handout.

If the government hopes/expects conditions will improve, does it make it not a handout?

[Admiral Yi]

If the government hopes/expects conditions will improve, does it make it not a handout?

Is this all going somewhere Jake?

[Jacob]

If the government hopes/expects conditions will improve, does it make it not a handout?

Is this all going somewhere Jake?

Yes.

It seems to me that by your definition there are very many handouts extant in Western economies. Thus it seems a bit curious to get so fixated on a particular set of them.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes.

It seems to me that by your definition there are very many handouts extant in Western economies. Thus it seems a bit curious to get so fixated on a particular set of them.

I do not think there are very many handouts.

[Razgovory]

Hey Yi, what about tax cuts directed at a certain business?  Is that a handout?  Oh, or if the government renders a service to business such as preventing employees from striking?  Is that a handout?

[Agelastus]

Hey Yi, what about tax cuts directed at a certain business?  Is that a handout?

How can a preferential tax cut aimed at a "certain business" be anything but a handout? 

Or were you referring to a tax change for a particular industry or sector in general, such as telecommunications or Automotive, which would not be a handout?