Breaking news: Margaret Thatcher has died

[Valmy]

Blair was only the heir to Thatcher in that he didn't radically change the broken system she had largely created.

In what sense is it broken and how should it be fixed?

[Neil]

Blair was only the heir to Thatcher in that he didn't radically change the broken system she had largely created.

In what sense is it broken and how should it be fixed?

COAL

[Capetan Mihali]

Kes is the awesome one which everyone of the last generation has seen.

Thanks, Tyr.  And funnily enough, in the Wikipedia article about the film, there's a link to a source claiming that in the early 70s the British miners were among the lowest paid in the industrialized West, fighting to get 35 pounds a week.

[Josquius]

Blair was only the heir to Thatcher in that he didn't radically change the broken system she had largely created.

In what sense is it broken and how should it be fixed?

The non-working class, a broken society, shitty regulation of financial markets, complete disregard for industry and skilled professions, gutted council housing stock,  a sharply broadened north-south divide, crappy zombie union system, increased poverty, increased inequality, etc...

Sadly its a lot easier to break something than put it back together again.

[Neil]

Wait, wasn't the depleted council housing stock a good thing?

Other than that, most of what you're saying is propaganda and buzzwords.

[Jacob]

Wait, wasn't the depleted council housing stock a good thing?

I expect it wasn't a good thing for the people who couldn't afford to buy it as it was sold off; and that might include many of the people hit by the peak unemployment at the time.

Just a guess, though.

[Josquius]

Wait, wasn't the depleted council housing stock a good thing?

Is this your kill the poor schtick? As I really can't see how that could be a good thing.
Maybe if demand drops off a lot leaving the government stuck paying for maintainance?
Otherwise...quite logically a bad thing.

Other than that, most of what you're saying is propaganda and buzzwords.

Not really, much of it is well observed phenomena. A class of people who for generation after generation largely live on benefits has emerged, the south has gotten drastically richer and whilst the north has recovered somewhat from the 80s it still lags much further behind than it did pre-Thatcher,statistics show poverty and inequality are higher, the crappy regulation of the financial markets was pretty much proven a few years ago, etc...

[Syt]

My Scottish colleague just mentioned that there are/will be pre-emptive arrests of possible troublemakers who may disturb the funeral? Any truth to that?

[Syt]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-funeral-security?CMP=twt_gu&CMP=SOCNETTXT6966

Margaret Thatcher funeral in security clampdown

Alert over Irish republican dissidents and far left groups as St Paul's ceremony looms

Police are to mount a major security operation at the funeral of Lady Thatcher at St Paul's Cathedral next Wednesday amid growing fears about the threat posed by dissident Irish republican terrorists and far left groups.

As Buckingham Palace said the Queen would break with recent precedent to attend the funeral, along with Prince Philip, Scotland Yard confirmed initial planning for the policing operation. Commander David Martin, head of the Met's public order unit, who has a counter-terrorism background, will be in charge.

The late prime minister, who was targeted by the IRA in the 1984 Brighton bombing in retaliation for the hardline stance she took in the 1981 hunger strikes, lost two close political allies in republican terrorist attacks.

A number of world leaders are expected to attend the "ceremonial funeral", which will fall short of a full state funeral on the wishes of Thatcher. It is understood she felt uncomfortable about lying in state before such a funeral and feared that a parliamentary vote, which would have to be held to approve public funds, could be divisive.

However most of the costs of the funeral will be met by the government, with the Thatcher Foundation contributing.

Invitations are yet to be formally issued, and because it is not a state funeral, countries are not automatically expected to send heads of state or representatives. But FW de Klerk, the last president of apartheid South Africa, who was embraced by Thatcher as a reformer, became the first former head of state to confirm his attendance. De Klerk, who ordered the release of Nelson Mandela from jail and then agreed to the negotiations that ended apartheid, will attend with his wife, Elita.

David Cameron will lead the tributes to Thatcher on Wednesday when parliament is recalled from its Easter recess for MPs from all parties to pay their respects to her. The House of Lords is also being recalled.

Ed Miliband, who has instructed his MPs to follow his lead in showing respect for Thatcher, suffered a blow when one of Labour's longest serving MPs said they should be free to criticise the "brutal contempt" with which she treated millions of working people. David Winnick, first elected to parliament in 1966, said it would be "absolutely hypocritical" if parliament did not hear all sides of the her legacy.

Years of planning for the funeral were put into action on Tuesday when Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office minister, whose late father Angus served in Thatcher's first cabinet, chaired a meeting of the True Blue operation. Maude briefed Cameron about the preparations at the daily 8.30am Downing Street meeting.

A friend of the Thatcher family attended the meeting about the funeral, which is being carefully organised to respect her wishes. It is understood the government will advise the family about the guest list. Her children, Sir Mark Thatcher and Carol, will have the final say.

It will be the first time the Queen has attended the funeral service of a former PM since Sir Winston Churchill's state ceremony in 1965. Palace officials described it as a "unique" occasion.

The body of Britain's first female prime minister was moved by private ambulance in the early hours of Tuesday from the Ritz hotel suite where, according to friends, she died at 11.28am on Monday after suffering a stroke while sitting in bed reading a book.

The police will mount a large operation as they take account of a series of challenges ranging from dissident Irish republican terrorists to activists on the far left who may use the funeral to show their contempt for Thatcher.

Police were called to a number of incidents in London and Glasgow on Monday night after a series of "parties" were held to "celebrate" the death of Thatcher. Chuka Umunna, the Labour MP for Streatham, made clear his anger on Twitter after a "party" was held in the Windrush Square area of Brixton in his constituency.

Umunna tweeted: "Holding a party to celebrate the death of any person is totally wrong and in extreme bad taste." He also tweeted: "The organisers of that event in Windrush Sq last night do not speak for or represent the people of Brixton."

The former Labour prime minister Tony Blair criticised the "parties", telling the BBC: "I think that's pretty poor taste. You've got to, even if you disagree with someone very strongly, particularly at the moment of their passing, show some respect."

The Metropolitan police said those wishing to protest at the funeral should contact them so "their right to protest can be upheld". It is a tactic and language they in their operation to police the Olympics, which senior officers regard as being a success.

Police will also be looking with care at the threat posed by dissident republicans. Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP for Newark and a security expert who served in Northern Ireland as platoon commander while Thatcher was PM, told the Guardian: "Baroness Thatcher's funeral is bound to excite dissident Republican ambitions. It is something I know the security services are taking very seriously.

"I remember distinctly her visit to us after the Warrenpoint and Lord Louis Mountbatten killings [in August 1979] and, of course, she was identified as a major hate figure by republicans during the hunger strikes of 1981."

It is understood that security assessments have suggested dissident republicans would like to use the funeral to make a show of force. But the assessments have suggested any threat is likely to be in Northern Ireland because they lack the resources to mount a mainland operation.

The guest list may provide something of a diplomatic headache for the government and the Thatcher family. Silvio Berlusconi's Freedom party said it had not yet been decided whether or not the former prime minister, who praised Thatcher lavishly in a statement on Monday, would attend.

Giorgio Napolitano, Italy's 87-year-old president and a former communist, "will definitely not" be attending the funeral, said a spokeswoman for the presidency. She said it was a question of protocol as Thatcher was not a head of state.

A spokesman for the office of Mario Monti, Italy's caretaker technocratic prime minister, said a final decision had not yet been taken but that it was thought likely he would not be there.

The Egyptian presidency says it will send a representative from the embassy but has not yet decided who.

Thatcher's controversial standing in the world was highlighted when Bob Carr, the Australian foreign minister, described her as "unabashedly racist". In an interview with the Lateline programme on ABC TV, Carr related a conversation with Thatcher after her retirement in which she warned of the challenge to Australia of Asian immigration.

Carr, whose wife is of Malaysian origin, said: "She said something that was unabashedly racist, where she warned Australia, talking to me with Elena [his wife] standing not far away against Asian immigration, saying if we allowed too much of it we'd see the natives of the land, the European settlers, overtaken by migrants. I couldn't believe it."


More from the Guardian

    My partner won't use sex toys to pleasure me anally 08 Apr 2013
    Anti-Thatcher sentiment primed to sweep through singles charts 09 Apr 2013
    Margaret Thatcher's death on newspaper front pages – in pictures 09 Apr 2013
    Margaret Thatcher's death greeted with street parties in Brixton and Glasgow 08 Apr 2013
    Why Margaret Thatcher is hard to mourn 09 Apr 2013
    Margaret Thatcher: no fond farewells from Africa 09 Apr 2013

[Martinus]

More from the Guardian

    My partner won't use sex toys to pleasure me anally 08 Apr 2013
    Anti-Thatcher sentiment primed to sweep through singles charts 09 Apr 2013
    Margaret Thatcher's death on newspaper front pages – in pictures 09 Apr 2013
    Margaret Thatcher's death greeted with street parties in Brixton and Glasgow 08 Apr 2013
    Why Margaret Thatcher is hard to mourn 09 Apr 2013
    Margaret Thatcher: no fond farewells from Africa 09 Apr 2013

One of these does not match the others. 

[Syt]

Yeah, it seemed a bit weird why this would pop up in the list.


EDIT: Seems it's been removed from the "More from the Guardian" list on the article.

[Martinus]

Yeah, it seemed a bit weird why this would pop up in the list.


EDIT: Seems it's been removed from the "More from the Guardian" list on the article.

Could be a joke from an anti-Thatcherite?

[Agelastus]

He should have renationalised the railways though (now Major doing that was heir of Thatcher stuff).

And here's one of the places where I don't entirely disagree with Tyr; Major privatised the railways in very messed up fashion, one that Labour, despite being given the opportunity on more than one occasion, failed to fix (there's too many companies for the size of the network, and because they're so small track maintenance got hived off into another company. Four of five franchises that also had the role of maintaining the tracks would have worked much better, especially if given 20-25 year franchises. Should have cost a lot less in subsidy as well, both direct and indirect.)

Where I would disagree with Tyr no doubt would be that after renationalisation I would have re-privatised but in a more sensible fashion as described above.

[Gups]

Wait, wasn't the depleted council housing stock a good thing?

I expect it wasn't a good thing for the people who couldn't afford to buy it as it was sold off; and that might include many of the people hit by the peak unemployment at the time.

Just a guess, though.

Nope, only the occupier had the right to buy.

The sale of council housing led to good and bad things as most major policies of this sort do. It improved neighbourhoods by giving people more of a stake and inclusiveness by allowing working class people a step on the property ladder and mobility. On the other hand is severely diminished the affordable housing stock, particularly given that local authorities were prohibited from using the receipts to construct or buy  new housing. Worse they were forced to provide mortgages to the purchasers if they couldn't get one from a bank.

The idea was, IMO, good on balance. However it was implemented poorly and the diicsount given against market price at 40%-60% was (and remains) a disgrace.

[Viking]

Kes is the awesome one which everyone of the last generation has seen.

Thanks, Tyr.  And funnily enough, in the Wikipedia article about the film, there's a link to a source claiming that in the early 70s the British miners were among the lowest paid in the industrialized West, fighting to get 35 pounds a week.

While I don't usually like to ad-hom against anything.. but, seriously, Jonathan Pilger? WTF?

You got a second source for that?