"Iberian" languages questions

[Queequeg]

Sheilbh just said that he could more or less converse in Argentine Spanish, but was totally hopeless if a group of Andalucians got together and "started talking rapidly."  This was interesting because it contradicted what I thought was my relatively well-informed picture of languages with roots in the Iberian peninsula. 

I would have said previously that there were four categories of these languages, which aren't all that closely related.  Starting from the east:
Catalan-Including Valencian and the dialect of Mallorca, far closer related to Provencal than even Aragonese and featuring a more conservative Romance phonology and some weird agglutinative tenancies.
Basque-Basque, Iberia's Ralph Wiggum of languages.
"Spanish"-including the dialects/languages of Leon, Aragon, Asturias, Castile and Andalucia.  I had thought previously that most Latin American dialects had roots in Castile and Andalucia, with maybe some Asturian.
Galician and Portuguese-Probably the Romance language in the region I know least about.

My dad has been spending months of the year in Brazil, and he's said that it is pretty common for Brazilians to be able to converse with Argentines more easily than with European Portuguese.  Would this be because of exposure or because of the formation of a Latin American sprachbund (a "linguistic union")? 

I don't speak any Romance language very well, and don't know as much about this as I would like, so would someone mind explaining to me just how many mutually unintelligible are there in the Hispanic world?  Do Argentines really sound more like Italians? 

[derspiess]

My dad has been spending months of the year in Brazil, and he's said that it is pretty common for Brazilians to be able to converse with Argentines more easily than with European Portuguese.  Would this be because of exposure or because of the formation of a Latin American sprachbund (a "linguistic union")? 

I think this is due to television & other media.  My wife can understand (but not really speak) Portuguese.  The thing that is a little odd is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of intermixing of the languages (loanwords, etc.).  They seem to remain pretty distinct.  There are a lot of cultural crossovers-- for example there was a recent craze in Argentina of drinking Brazilian caipirinhas, a drink made with the cachaça liquor. And dulce de leche made it over to Brazil a long time ago.

I don't speak any Romance language very well, and don't know as much about this as I would like, so would someone mind explaining to me just how many mutually unintelligible are there in the Hispanic world?

Hard to say.  All I know is there is a lot more regional differentiation in the "Spanish-speaking world" than I originally thought.

Do Argentines really sound more like Italians? 

Yes, but more in terms of speech patterns/rhythm and gesticulations.  I was explaining to a co-worker (who had no idea at all what language is spoken in Argentina) that they speak Spanish as if they were trying to imitate Italians.  As far as vocabulary is concerned there is a lot of Italian influence, but it was sort of filtered through a pidgin called Lunfardo before it was absorbed into general Argentine usage.  So there are a lot of Italianesque words in use but not many that appear purely Italian. 

There a buttload of Italian surnames in Buenos Aires, but they're usually pronounced in Spanish rather than Italian, which always throws me off.

[garbon]

Are caipirinhas really that rare? I drink them all the time.

[derspiess]

Are caipirinhas really that rare? I drink them all the time.

Outside of your bubble, I'd say yes.

[garbon]

My bubble travels pretty nation-wide. *shrugs*

[derspiess]

My bubble travels pretty nation-wide. *shrugs*

Okay, bubbles.

[garbon]

Note to self - der gets panicky when you ask whether one's nations cultural items are uncommon in other nations. Reason for that - unknown.

[derspiess]

Note to self - der gets panicky when you ask whether one's nations cultural items are uncommon in other nations. Reason for that - unknown.

  I think your bar for "common" is pretty low.  I'd bet that fewer than 1 or 2% of Americans have ever heard of them.

[garbon]

I had just asked a question.

Besides, I wouldn't consort with much more than 1 to 2% of Americans.

[Admiral Yi]

  I think your bar for "common" is pretty low.  I'd bet that fewer than 1 or 2% of Americans have ever heard of them.

I was going to take that bet, but on reflection I think mojitos are relatively well known but caipirinhas are not.

[The Larch]

The problem with European Portuguese is its pronunciation, which is quite complicated. Brazilian Portuguese is much more straight forward.

[HVC]

The problem with European Portuguese is its pronunciation, which is quite complicated. Brazilian Portuguese is much more straight forward.

I have no idea what brazilians are saying. I understand Spanish much easier. 

[Iormlund]

Sheilbh just said that he could more or less converse in Argentine Spanish, but was totally hopeless if a group of Andalucians got together and "started talking rapidly."  This was interesting because it contradicted what I thought was my relatively well-informed picture of languages with roots in the Iberian peninsula. 

I'd guess it's not about dialects, but about pronunciation. The worst I've seen in that regard was once at a bar in Cordoba, where some friends were trying to order beer. The bartender had a really, really thick accent and spoke so fast we couldn't understand a single word. It was hilarious.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. I know some Granadans and I understand nothing. I barely even hear words. For me it's the speed, when they speak slowly it's not so bad. Some other Spaniards are far easier too.

I struggle with Mexicans too.

[derspiess]

I'd guess it's not about dialects, but about pronunciation. The worst I've seen in that regard was once at a bar in Cordoba, where some friends were trying to order beer. The bartender had a really, really thick accent and spoke so fast we couldn't understand a single word. It was hilarious.

Seems like Cordobenses sort of "sing" each sentence they speak.  Some of them are hard even for other Argies to understand.