"Iberian" languages questions

[Josquius]

[

My point was simply that the if you are comparing mutual intelligibility amongst Spanish speakers to that amongst English speakers, you should exclude roughly the same level of "isolated speech patterns". I don't think your initial comparison did that, Raz and Spellus' tangents about creoles, patois, dialects, and accents notwithstanding. If you exclude Jamaican patois from the English comparison, you should exclude the Spanish/Portuguese equivalents; if you exclude Glaswegian, or South Boston, or urban African-American, or Delhi-standard from the English analysis, you should exclude the Spanish/Portuguese equivalents.

I think you're right that if you're a speaker of something close to TV-American or RP-British you won't have to worry about anyone in the Anglosphere understanding. I'd venture, however, that if you're a speaker of Castilian or Telenovela-Mexican you'd be equally well understood amongst Spanish-speakers worldwide. The issue goes the other way. So to the point of unequal comparisons, comparing how well you personally are understood while travelling in the Anglosphere to how much difficulty Breogan may have in understanding Astur-Leonese isn't really sound data analysis IMO.

I don't think anyone is gong to exclude Glaswegian, South Boston or urban African American (I don't know exactly what Delhi standard is).  These are all intelligible to an English speaker.  It require no long term immersion.  While there may be some misunderstanding most people will understand each other.

The point about English derived creole languages is they aren't a comparable to Iberian languages.  Castillian and and Catalan developed side by side as separate dialects or languages.  Catalan isn't derived from Castillian.  An English-Yoruba Creole is derived from English and Yoruba.  It's not a dialect of either or both, but neither one.

You need to meet more Glaswegians. Even other northern brits have trouble with them let alone southerners or Americans. It's about as intelligible to a standard English speaker as Dutch would be.

[Admiral Yi]

Agreed.  The one time I met a Glaswegian I couldn't figure out what language he was speaking.

Once that was resolved, I couldn't figure out what he was trying to say.

[The Larch]

The weirdest English I've ever heard in my life was from a guy from Donegal.

[Agelastus]

The weirdest English I've ever heard in my life was from a guy from Donegal.

That would make sense given my experience; the only English accent I've ever had major trouble deciphering was that of a Northern Irish Catholic from just across the border with Donegal.

Actually, it's the only English accent I failed to decipher reliably, despite a year of listening to the man.

[The Larch]

The weirdest English I've ever heard in my life was from a guy from Donegal.

That would make sense given my experience; the only English accent I've ever had major trouble deciphering was that of a Northern Irish Catholic from just across the border with Donegal.

Actually, it's the only English accent I failed to decipher reliably, despite a year of listening to the man.

The guy I speak about lived in Letterkenny. The first time I spoke with him on the phone I chalked it up to bad signal or something, but then I met him in person and it was almost worse...

[garbon]

A map that purports to show of the English dialects of Canada/US.

http://aschmann.net/AmEng/index_collection/AmericanEnglishDialects.gif

http://aschmann.net/AmEng/#LargeMap5Right

[Caliga]

The upper south area on that map looks very accurate based on my experience.  For example, southern Indiana does in fact have a southern accent.

[derspiess]

General American ueber alles

[garbon]

General American ueber alles

A bit odd that it's general American given that apparently almost no one speaks it.

[Viking]

A map that purports to show of the English dialects of Canada/US.

http://aschmann.net/AmEng/index_collection/AmericanEnglishDialects.gif

http://aschmann.net/AmEng/#LargeMap5Right

Coming from a language with 14 distinct vowel sounds  I'm often baffled that people can't hear differences in the different vowel sounds. For pretty much every vowel example I found on that NA English map Icelandic uses both.

[derspiess]

General American ueber alles

A bit odd that it's general American given that apparently almost no one speaks it.

Turn on a TV or radio

[garbon]

General American ueber alles

A bit odd that it's general American given that apparently almost no one speaks it.

Turn on a TV or radio

Yeah but apparently that has little to no effect on our everyday speech patterns. We don't care enough to bother to speak..."properly"?

[derspiess]

Yeah but apparently that has little to no effect on our everyday speech patterns. We don't care enough to bother to speak..."properly"?

But I think it's more widespread than the map suggests-- it's just not what the majority speak in most places.  And I'd wager that most Americans are pretty capable of fairly closely mimicking it (and possibly use it in formal settings) even if they don't speak it as their 'natural' dialect.

Btw, I think that's a pretty solid map overall, but it's just one guy's work.  Not really a consensus.

[garbon]

Yeah but apparently that has little to no effect on our everyday speech patterns. We don't care enough to bother to speak..."properly"?

But I think it's more widespread than the map suggests-- it's just not what the majority speak in most places.  And I'd wager that most Americans are pretty capable of fairly closely mimicking it (and possibly use it in formal settings) even if they don't speak it as their 'natural' dialect.

Well sure but then I'd say a lot of these dialects are a lot more widespread than suggested.  For instance that unique insert of what is shown in Bay Area.  So many people in the Bay Area (particularly SF) are not from the Bay Area so that map is really a lot more complicated.

Also I'm not sure on the mimicking aspect if only because I'm not sure that many Americans would recognize it as such.

I'm also wondering which of these many dialects I speak given that I'm not really from one places despite my Californian claim.

[derspiess]

I'm also wondering which of these many dialects I speak given that I'm not really from one places despite my Californian claim.

I'm sort of in the same boat.  I grew up in Appalachia but never fully spoke the local dialect because of my mom's General American influence on me.  I did my best to lose any trace of Appalachian (Allegheny Midland/Southern Lowland mix?) when I moved to the "Atlantic Midland" region.  I've worked a lot in the upper midwest in the past decade and I think that has had a little influence on me.  Cincinnati is supposedly a "linguistic island" but most people I know here speak General American.

People usually have a pretty tough time pinpointing my accent.  I'd say I'm closest to General American, but the Appalachian comes out sometimes if I'm really tired or drunk.  Or if I'm using a goofy voice to talk to my kids then for whatever reason it's heavily Appalachian.