Korea Thread: Liberal Moon Jae In Elected

[Camerus]

It seems the implicit assumption is that nothing short of NK actually initiating war constitutes a casus belli.  Claiming to have WMD's and making endless bellicose threats against the USA and its allies isn't enough to justify a preemptive action. 

Of course it's largely to due to China and the damage war could cause to S.Korea or possiblyJapan, but still, it adds another dimension on how to think about the war with Iraq in 2003.

[Martinus]

Btw, China taking over NK is still preferable to Kim ruling NK, both internally and internationally.

No, it isn't. It would become the Alsace-Loraine of the region.

China will never give up its influence over North Korea - it is preferable that China rules there more directly than having to do with a crazy nuke-happy retard. China is a reasonable partner.

[Tamas]

No it's not. It would be a potential source of great danger if a South Korean regime would go all "chinese out of our homeland!" on them.

[Eddie Teach]

If the South Koreans start acting stupid we could always dump them.

[Tamas]

If the South Koreans start acting stupid we could always dump them.

[katmai]

If the South Koreans start acting stupid we could always dump them.

Does Gangnam style count?

[Eddie Teach]

Tamas, our alliance with South Korea is defensive in nature. If they wanted to pick a fight with China they'd get very little support from the West. Any sabre-rattling on their side would be empty posturing. The danger would come from the Chinese side, who are more practical than the current North Korean regime.

[Razgovory]

The situation was about the North Korean leadership fleeing to China, not China taking over North Korea.   Get the beets out of your ears.

Sheilbh talked about China giving shelter to Kim and co. And I was talking about the same thing.

I was under the impression that Shelf was talking about it in the context of the article of Kim and co fleeing the country, not giving shelter by taking over the country.

I wasn't talking about giving shelter by taking over the country, initially, either. But I suspect if the Chinese are stepping in so majorly, it will bear a price tag

That's great but has nothing to do with what Shelf was talking about.

[jimmy olsen]

 
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-north-korea-moves-missile-20130404,0,7111216.story

North Korea moves missile with 'considerable range' to east coast
Hours after North Korea's military says it is ready to strike the U.S. with 'smaller' nuclear weapons, South Korean defense officials report Pyongyang has moved a missile to its east coast.

North Korea has moved a missile with "considerable range" to its east coast, South Korea's defense minister said Thursday, but he added that there are no signs that Pyongyang is preparing for a full-scale conflict.

The report came hours after North Korea's military warned that it has been authorized to attack the U.S. using "smaller, lighter and diversified" nuclear weapons. It was the North's latest war cry against America in recent weeks. The reference to smaller weapons could be a claim that Pyongyang has improved its nuclear technology.

South Korean Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin said he did not know the reasons behind the North's missile movement, and that it "could be for testing or drills."

He dismissed reports in Japanese media that the missile could be a KN-08, which is believed to be a long-range missile that if operable could hit the United States.

Kim told lawmakers at a parliamentary committee meeting that the missile has "considerable range" but not enough to hit the U.S. mainland.

The range he described could refer to a mobile North Korean missile known as the Musudan, which has a range of 3,000 kilometers (1,800 miles). That would make Japan and South Korea potential targets — along with U.S. bases in both countries — but there are doubts about the missile's accuracy.

The Pentagon announced that it will deploy a missile defense system to the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam to strengthen regional protection against a possible attack.

Experts say North Korea has not demonstrated that it has missiles capable of long range or accuracy. Some suspect that long-range missiles unveiled by Pyongyang at a parade last year were actually mockups.

"From what we know of its existing inventory, North Korea has short- and medium-range missiles that could complicate a situation on the Korean Peninsula (and perhaps reach Japan), but we have not seen any evidence that it has long-range missiles that could strike the continental U.S., Guam or Hawaii," James Hardy, Asia Pacific editor of IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, wrote in a recent analysis.

Kim Kwan-jin said that if North Korea were preparing for a full-scale conflict, there would be signs including the mobilization of a number of units, including supply and rear troops, but South Korean military officials have found no such preparations.

"(North Korea's recent threats) are rhetorical threats. I believe the odds of a full-scale provocation are small," he said. But he added that North Korea might mount a small-scale provocation such as its 2010 shelling of a South Korean island, an attack that killed four people.

Pyongyang has been railing against joint U.S. and South Korean military exercises taking place in South Korea and has expressed anger over tightened U.N. sanctions for its February nuclear test. Many of the threats come in the middle of the night in Asia — daytime for the U.S. audience.

Analysts say the threats are probably efforts to provoke softer policies from South Korea, to win diplomatic talks with Washington and to solidify the image of young North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

At times, Pyongyang has gone beyond rhetoric.

On Tuesday, it announced it would restart a plutonium reactor it had shut down in 2007. A U.S. research institute said Wednesday that satellite imagery shows that construction needed for the restart has already begun.

For a second day Thursday, North Korean border authorities denied entry to South Koreans who manage jointly run factories in the North Korean city of Kaesong. South Koreans already at the plant were being allowed to return home.

Defense Minister Kim said South Korea has prepared a military contingency plan should North Korea hold South Korean workers hostage in Kaesong, Kim said. He wouldn't elaborate.

Outraged over comments in the South about possible hostage-taking and a military response from Seoul, a North Korean government-run committee threatened to pull North Korean workers out of Kaesong as well.

North Korea's military statement Thursday, from an unnamed spokesman from the General Bureau of the Korean People's Army, said its troops had been authorized to counter U.S. "aggression" with "powerful practical military counteractions," including nuclear weapons.

It said America's "hostile policy" and "nuclear threat" against North Korea "will be smashed by the strong will of all the united service personnel and people and cutting-edge smaller, lighter and diversified nuclear strike means."



North Korea has moved a missile with "considerable range" to its east coast, South Korea's defense minister said Thursday, but he added that there are no signs that Pyongyang is preparing for a full-scale conflict.

The report came hours after North Korea's military warned that it has been authorized to attack the U.S. using "smaller, lighter and diversified" nuclear weapons. It was the North's latest war cry against America in recent weeks. The reference to smaller weapons could be a claim that Pyongyang has improved its nuclear technology.

South Korean Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin said he did not know the reasons behind the North's missile movement, and that it "could be for testing or drills."

He dismissed reports in Japanese media that the missile could be a KN-08, which is believed to be a long-range missile that if operable could hit the United States.

Kim told lawmakers at a parliamentary committee meeting that the missile has "considerable range" but not enough to hit the U.S. mainland.

The range he described could refer to a mobile North Korean missile known as the Musudan, which has a range of 3,000 kilometers (1,800 miles). That would make Japan and South Korea potential targets — along with U.S. bases in both countries — but there are doubts about the missile's accuracy.

The Pentagon announced that it will deploy a missile defense system to the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam to strengthen regional protection against a possible attack.

Experts say North Korea has not demonstrated that it has missiles capable of long range or accuracy. Some suspect that long-range missiles unveiled by Pyongyang at a parade last year were actually mockups.

"From what we know of its existing inventory, North Korea has short- and medium-range missiles that could complicate a situation on the Korean Peninsula (and perhaps reach Japan), but we have not seen any evidence that it has long-range missiles that could strike the continental U.S., Guam or Hawaii," James Hardy, Asia Pacific editor of IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, wrote in a recent analysis.

Kim Kwan-jin said that if North Korea were preparing for a full-scale conflict, there would be signs including the mobilization of a number of units, including supply and rear troops, but South Korean military officials have found no such preparations.

"(North Korea's recent threats) are rhetorical threats. I believe the odds of a full-scale provocation are small," he said. But he added that North Korea might mount a small-scale provocation such as its 2010 shelling of a South Korean island, an attack that killed four people.

Pyongyang has been railing against joint U.S. and South Korean military exercises taking place in South Korea and has expressed anger over tightened U.N. sanctions for its February nuclear test. Many of the threats come in the middle of the night in Asia — daytime for the U.S. audience.

Analysts say the threats are probably efforts to provoke softer policies from South Korea, to win diplomatic talks with Washington and to solidify the image of young North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

At times, Pyongyang has gone beyond rhetoric.

On Tuesday, it announced it would restart a plutonium reactor it had shut down in 2007. A U.S. research institute said Wednesday that satellite imagery shows that construction needed for the restart has already begun.

For a second day Thursday, North Korean border authorities denied entry to South Koreans who manage jointly run factories in the North Korean city of Kaesong. South Koreans already at the plant were being allowed to return home.

Defense Minister Kim said South Korea has prepared a military contingency plan should North Korea hold South Korean workers hostage in Kaesong, Kim said. He wouldn't elaborate.

Outraged over comments in the South about possible hostage-taking and a military response from Seoul, a North Korean government-run committee threatened to pull North Korean workers out of Kaesong as well.

North Korea's military statement Thursday, from an unnamed spokesman from the General Bureau of the Korean People's Army, said its troops had been authorized to counter U.S. "aggression" with "powerful practical military counteractions," including nuclear weapons.

It said America's "hostile policy" and "nuclear threat" against North Korea "will be smashed by the strong will of all the united service personnel and people and cutting-edge smaller, lighter and diversified nuclear strike means."

U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Washington is doing all it can to defuse the situation.

"Some of the actions they've taken over the last few weeks present a real and clear danger and threat" to the U.S. and its allies, Hagel said Wednesday.

South Korea's Defense Ministry said its military is ready to deal with any provocation by North Korea. "I can say we have no problem in crisis management," deputy ministry spokesman Wee Yong-sub told reporters.

The defense minister, however, was criticized by lawmakers over a North Korean defector who stole a South Korean fishing boat Wednesday night and fled back to North Korea across the western sea border.

Kim said South Korean radar has a "blind spot" in the area and South Korean troops were unaware the defector was fleeing until he almost reached the North Korean side. Lawmakers questioned his military's readiness to detect and counter enemy troops who might use similar blind spots.

This spring's annual U.S.-South Korea drills have incorporated fighter jets and nuclear-capable stealth bombers. The allies insist they are routine exercises. Pyongyang calls them rehearsals for a northward invasion and says it needs nuclear weapons to defend itself.

On Sunday, Kim Jong Un led a high-level meeting of party officials who declared building the economy and "nuclear armed forces" as the nation's priorities.

Pyongyang is believed to be working toward building an atomic bomb small enough to mount on a long-range missile. Long-range rocket launches designed to send satellites into space in 2009 and 2012 were widely considered covert tests of missile technology, and North Korea has conducted three underground nuclear tests.

"I don't believe North Korea has the capacity to attack the United States with nuclear weapons mounted on missiles, and won't for many years. Its ability to target and strike South Korea is also very limited," nuclear scientist Siegfried Hecker, a senior fellow at the Center for International Security and Cooperation at Stanford University, said this week.

In comments posted to CISAC's website, Hecker said North Korea knows a nuclear attack would be met with "a devastating nuclear response."

Hecker has estimated that North Korea has enough plutonium to make several crude nuclear bombs. Its announcement Tuesday that it would restart a plutonium reactor indicated that it intends to produce more nuclear weapons material.

The U.S.-Korea Institute at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies has analyzed recent commercial satellite imagery of the Nyongbyon nuclear facility, where the reactor was shut down in 2007 under the terms of a disarmament agreement. A cooling tower for the reactor was destroyed in 2008.

The analysis published Wednesday on the institute's website, 38 North, says that rebuilding the tower would take six months, but a March 27 photo shows building work may have started for an alternative cooling system that could take just weeks. Experts estimate it could take three months to a year to restart the plant.

[Legbiter]

Yeah, fire a missile over Japan to get the Chinese to back off from enforcing sanctions on North Korea. Let the SK and American military exercises play out and afterwards declare victory via the "fact" that NK was not invaded by the Yankee pigdog alliance.

[Warspite]

If a missile has considerable range, why move it to the coast?

[Legbiter]

If a missile has considerable range, why move it to the coast?

With NK missiles every little thing helps? 

[Tamas]

The situation was about the North Korean leadership fleeing to China, not China taking over North Korea.   Get the beets out of your ears.

Sheilbh talked about China giving shelter to Kim and co. And I was talking about the same thing.

I was under the impression that Shelf was talking about it in the context of the article of Kim and co fleeing the country, not giving shelter by taking over the country.

I wasn't talking about giving shelter by taking over the country, initially, either. But I suspect if the Chinese are stepping in so majorly, it will bear a price tag

That's great but has nothing to do with what Shelf was talking about.

Sheilbh was talking about hoping the US would not protest if China gave shelter to the NK leadership, since it would be dangerous. I called that out as appeasement.
You and Marty started talking about various different things. Thats pretty much what happened.

[Ed Anger]

I have placed myself at BONERCON 2. JOHN HAS A LONG MUSTACHE.

[Ed Anger]

I have made my war preps.

Case of diet dr. pepper in fridge? Check
Pizza place phone numbers entered into iPad? Check
Box of tissues for wacking off to air strike footage? Check