NCAA football, 2013-14

[Valmy]

Man, you Texas fans are super-touchy, aren't you? 

No I honestly didn't know. 

[Valmy]

I think a good coach can have Texas winning 10+ games again in 2 seasons or so, but oddly the guy they just pushed out the door has given Texas fans the feeling they should essentially win the conference every year, beat Oklahoma every year, and win/play for an NC more often than twice every 16 years.

That would be weird since the guy Mack replaced won a conference title three times in six years and Mack only won two in sixteen.  I really do not think Texas fans have this feeling at all (well ok some of us do but this particular part of the fanbase has felt this way since the late 70s at least).  Granted we do not particularly like losing to Oklahoma by 40 when OU was not even that good and the team quit in the first half.  It was just a matter that it was clear Mack was not going to get it turned around, the program was losing momentum and recruiting was dropping off.  It was time for a change, not that we demand a national championship every year.  Only the Auburn and Alabama fans demand that, and that clearly is not working out for them at all.

[Valmy]

Oh, Valmy, Jeffcoat and Fera are All Americans.

Yeah I saw that.  Great season by those two guys and Cedric Reed.  They will all be missed.  It is amazing Manny Diaz found a way to be so bad with that defensive line.

[MadBurgerMaker]

That would be weird since the guy Mack replaced won a conference title three times in six years and Mack only won two in sixteen.

I still laugh when I think about that ridiculous 5 way tie that happened because A&M had been cheating.  Even Rice got in on the action.

E:  Wait.  Rice just won their conference this year for the first time in.....was that tie the last time they had done that???

[Valmy]

E:  Wait.  Rice just won their conference this year for the first time in.....was that tie the last time they had done that???

Yep.  Same with Baylor this year.  Texas Tech is the only one of the five legendary co-champs of 1994 to not win a conference title since.

For those who do not know what we are talking about here were the Southwest Conference Standings from 1994:

Team                 Conference  Overall
#8 Texas A&M* 6 – 0 – 1     10 – 0 – 1
#25 Texas §     4 – 3 – 0     8 – 4 – 0
Baylor §            4 – 3 – 0     7 – 5 – 0
TCU §               4 – 3 – 0     7 – 5 – 0
Texas Tech §    4 – 3 – 0     6 – 6 – 0
Rice §               4 – 3 – 0     5 – 6 – 0
Houston           1 – 6 – 0     1 – 10 – 0
SMU                  0 – 6 – 1     1 – 9 – 1

A&M was ineligible due to being on probation.  Yes they did tie the last place team.  Texas, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, and Rice were all co-champions.  I remember on the last day of the season the Houston fans made a 'Conference runner-ups!' banner

[PDH]

Wyoming won a conference title sometime in the past.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I do agree Mack didn't win enough conference championships, but I'll also note that however many conference championships his predecessor won Texas was known as a weak giant for my entire life up until Mack and they certainly didn't win any national championships under his predecessor.

[Eddie Teach]

Judging from that list in Valmy's post above, conference championships in the SWC didn't have quite the cachet they do in the Big 12.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Judging from that list in Valmy's post above, conference championships in the SWC didn't have quite the cachet they do in the Big 12.

Mackovic also won the Big 12 the first year in the conference.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Judging from that list in Valmy's post above, conference championships in the SWC didn't have quite the cachet they do in the Big 12.

Mackovic also won the Big 12 the first year in the conference.

With an 8-5 record, that's just luck in how the other teams fared to win the conference with a record like that. Brown had like 10-11 seasons with better records than that where he didn't win the conference.

[MadBurgerMaker]

With an 8-5 record, that's just luck in how the other teams fared to win the conference with a record like that. Brown had like 10-11 seasons with better records than that where he didn't win the conference.

He lost two conference games.  That team beat Nebraska in the CCG. 

[OttoVonBismarck]

I'm not saying Mack wasn't done, I think the signs were all there.  But I think it's similar to a Lloyd Carr type situation, I remember myself thinking Carr needed to go at Michigan and not being surprised when he stepped down and I feel the same way about Mack. But after the Rodriguez years and the Hoke years so far, I've looked back and realized (after actually looking at the real W-L record and not the perception) that even in his "down" years, Carr was a damn good football coach. I think similar can be said for Mack, and while I understand the fans that get upset they 'aren't in the hunt' at the end of the season as often as they would like to be guys like Mack Brown and Lloyd Carr aren't always easy to replace and sometimes you actually get a much worse replacement.

[OttoVonBismarck]

With an 8-5 record, that's just luck in how the other teams fared to win the conference with a record like that. Brown had like 10-11 seasons with better records than that where he didn't win the conference.

That team beat Nebraska in the CCG.

Right, but there are several years where 8-5 wouldn't get you in the conference championship game in the first place. The idea that Mackovic's 8-5 Big 12 championship season is somehow better than one of Mack's seasons where he won 10+ games and a big time bowl but didn't win the conference championship is asinine. It's indicative of people being stupid about  how they are evaluating their coach. That same B12 championship team of Mackovic's got its ass ripped open by Penn State and a coach already well into senility. In 2004 Mack went 11-1, did not win the Big 12, and won the Rose Bowl. I'd take that over Mackovic's 8-5 Big 12 Championship season with a bowl game loss any day; you'd probably complain that Nick Saban lost to LSU and didn't win the SEC Championship the year he beat them in the NC? 

It's worth noting a coach like Nick Saban who basically owns football is a once in a generation coach, Texas isn't going to get someone like that and whoever they do get probably won't beat Oklahoma 85% of the time or win the Big 12 every other season.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Right, but there are several years where 8-5 wouldn't get you in the conference championship game in the first place. The idea that Mackovic's 8-5 Big 12 championship season is somehow better than one of Mack's seasons where he won 10+ games and a big time bowl but didn't win the conference championship is asinine. It's indicative of people being stupid about  how they are evaluating their coach. That same B12 championship team of Mackovic's got its ass ripped open by Penn State and a coach already well into senility.

Okay.  What you don't seem to understand is we aren't saying that 8-5 season is better than one of Mack's seasons or wahtever.  We're saying that Mack only won the conference twice in his entire time there, despite having teams that are clearly very good.

In 2004 Mack went 11-1, did not win the Big 12, and won the Rose Bowl. I'd take that over Mackovic's 8-5 Big 12 Championship season with a bowl game loss any day; you'd probably complain the Nick Saban lost to LSU and didn't win the SEC Championship the year he beat them in the NC? 

No, probably not.

It's worth noting a coach like Nick Saban who basically owns football is a once in a generation coach, Texas isn't going to get someone like that and whoever they do get probably won't beat Oklahoma 85% of the time or win the Big 12 every other season.

Thanks for noting that.  I figured the new guy would just go 1.000 for the next 30 years and would just die on the sidelines after his 30th NC win, but since you pointed it out I've revised my expectations. 

[Valmy]

With an 8-5 record, that's just luck in how the other teams fared to win the conference with a record like that. Brown had like 10-11 seasons with better records than that where he didn't win the conference.

Yep.  It is a joke about Mack only won 2 while Mackovic won 3.  Mackovic never had to play Bob Stoops.

That 1996 team that went 8-5 was the greatest five loss team in UT history.  Three of their regular season losses were games they had won and just blew due to stupid mistakes, they blew double digit leads like they were going out of style.  The exception was a hilarious and inexplicable collapse against Virginia where Tiki Barber gained about 300 yards.

I mean the 1996 team had both Priest Holmes and Ricky Williams in its backfield.  It should have been Mackovic's best team, it should have gone 10-1.  A team of legendary underachievement.