Poles to bring the case for the CoFSM before the ECHR

[crazy canuck]

I think the word "liberal democracy" is best to describe the narrower version of Democracy as CC sees it.

You will note that in my very first post on the subject I said that the Rule of Law was critical to a healthy democracy.  What you seem to think of democracy is form over substance.

I'm looking at it as a political system, and not relying on a value judgment to define it.

I am not sure what that means.  How can one evaluate whether a purported democratic system is actually democratic without analyzing it through the lens of the Rule of Law?

[Admiral Yi]

I'm not sure how gerrymandering relates to the rule of law.  State legislatures pass gerrymandering laws.

[Valmy]

The debate was joined over the question of whether any system created by democratically elected governments will always be democratic.

Well obviously not.  I refer back to my example of Pierre Laval's parliamentary coup and the creation of the Vichy government in 1940.

[crazy canuck]

I'm not sure how gerrymandering relates to the rule of law.  State legislatures pass gerrymandering laws.

I am not sure how the Rule of Law doesnt apply in your example.

[Admiral Yi]

I am not sure how the Rule of Law doesnt apply in your example.

That settles that.

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure how the Rule of Law doesnt apply in your example.

That settles that.

Excellent

[Razgovory]

I'm not looking at as positive or negative.  You are looking at it as a positive value, now while I don't disagree that a good democracy is a positive, I'm not defining it as as necessarily positive.  To define it as a positive you have to add in other things like rule of law and minority rights, which in my opinion alters the definition.

[crazy canuck]

I'm not looking at as positive or negative.  You are looking at it as a positive value, now while I don't disagree that a good democracy is a positive, I'm not defining it as as necessarily positive.  To define it as a positive you have to add in other things like rule of law and minority rights, which in my opinion alters the definition.

I still dont know what you are talking about.  How did an analysis of the type of system used in a democracy become question of positive and negative values.  I suppose a system that is corrupt is bad and a system that is not is good.  Is that all you are saying?  because if that is it why are you arguing with me?

[Sheilbh]

I'm not sure how gerrymandering relates to the rule of law.  State legislatures pass gerrymandering laws.

There's more to the rule of law than passing laws. A legislature could legislate for, say, deportation of immigrants with no right to appeal. That would be a law, from a democratic legislature, but wouldn't be following the rule of law.

Also democracy and rule of law don't necessarily go together. Look at Singapore or apartheid South Africa.

[Admiral Yi]

There's more to the rule of law than passing laws. A legislature could legislate for, say, deportation of immigrants with no right to appeal. That would be a law, from a democratic legislature, but wouldn't be following the rule of law.

Why not?

[Razgovory]

I'm not looking at as positive or negative.  You are looking at it as a positive value, now while I don't disagree that a good democracy is a positive, I'm not defining it as as necessarily positive.  To define it as a positive you have to add in other things like rule of law and minority rights, which in my opinion alters the definition.

I still dont know what you are talking about.  How did an analysis of the type of system used in a democracy become question of positive and negative values.  I suppose a system that is corrupt is bad and a system that is not is good.  Is that all you are saying?  because if that is it why are you arguing with me?

I'm saying that a corrupt and bad democracy is still a form of democracy.

[Sheilbh]

Why not?

Because there's more to the rule of law - even in the most stripped back understanding - than that a law is legally passed.

Edit: Sorry to revive but I meant to answer this and then got reminded by first time offender thread.