Vietnam: Nixon's Treason

[Tamas]

That's only like 25,000 more dead American soldiers.

You seriously think that, if the "make peace treaty -> wait for the US to leave -> lol was just kidding, here is zergrush" happened in '68 instead of 73 or whenever the hell it happened, the US would had still said "oh, I'll be damned, who would have thought?! good luck South Vietnam! kthxbye!"?

[Razgovory]

Dude, I can't speak Hungarian, so try to write that post again in English.

[Ed Anger]

Dude, I can't speak Hungarian, so try to write that post again in English.

I'll help.

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[Tamas]

FU

so, to have a run at it again, what I wanted to say was: you implied that there would had not been a reaction from the US to a broken peace of '68 if there had been one, just like there was no reaction to the broken peace in the 70s.
And I think you are wrong, because the nose of the USA was probably not sufficiently bloodied to be taken for a fool by half of a former french colony.

[Razgovory]

FU

so, to have a run at it again, what I wanted to say was: you implied that there would had not been a reaction from the US to a broken peace of '68 if there had been one, just like there was no reaction to the broken peace in the 70s.
And I think you are wrong, because the nose of the USA was probably not sufficiently bloodied to be taken for a fool by half of a former french colony.

I implied this?  I thought I said the opposite.

[Agelastus]

FU

so, to have a run at it again, what I wanted to say was: you implied that there would had not been a reaction from the US to a broken peace of '68 if there had been one, just like there was no reaction to the broken peace in the 70s.
And I think you are wrong, because the nose of the USA was probably not sufficiently bloodied to be taken for a fool by half of a former french colony.

I implied this?  I thought I said the opposite.

I think you need to expand what you meant by "That's only like 25,000 more dead American soldiers" then since I understood it to imply the same thing that Tamas did - that you believed that the USA would not have reacted to North Vietnam's (hypothetical) abrogation of the (hypothetical) peace treaty in the period 1968-70 to a greater extent than the more war weary America of 1973-5 actually did once the inevitable North Vietnamese offensive began - and that thus 25000 Americans who died in the period after Nixon's intervention would not have died had he not intervened.

Or, more simply, that for some reason you believe that North Vietnam would have held to a Peace Treaty signed in 1968 when they demonstrably did not abide by the treaty of 1973, a position for which I would be interested to hear your argument for.

[Razgovory]

The US could have responded to violations of a peace treaty in a way that did not require mass deployment of the army.  Continued support through air power and sale and aid of military hardware would have been greater support then was given post 1973 treaty and is unlikely to have resulted in so many American deaths.

[Grinning_Colossus]

The North breaking whatever agreement might have been reached and invading the South outright (the kekekeke scenario) could, as a blatant act of international aggression, have given the U.S. the diplomatic cover to overthrow the Hanoi government. So they probably wouldn't have done that--although they certainly would have continued supporting the insurgency indefinitely, which would have been messy.

[Admiral Yi]

The North breaking whatever agreement might have been reached and invading the South outright (the kekekeke scenario) could, as a blatant act of international aggression, have given the U.S. the diplomatic cover to overthrow the Hanoi government. They probably wouldn't do that--although they certainly would have continued supporting the insurgency indefinitely, which would have been messy.

That's the scenario that did happen.

[derspiess]

[Grinning_Colossus]

By 1975 the American public was so exhausted by the war that they would never have consented to going back in. The political will to punish North Vietnam and defend the South might have existed if they'd pulled out earlier.

[The Minsky Moment]

Not really sure I get the treason charge.

He was interfering in government-to-government talks, and intentionally sabotaging the negotiations of his own government.
Is that a high crime or misdemeanor?  YMMV.

[Admiral Yi]

He was interfering in government-to-government talks, and intentionally sabotaging the negotiations of his own government.
Is that a high crime or misdemeanor?  YMMV.

If the head of some US aid organization told the head of a developing country that voting for a US GATT proposal was not in their interest, would that be treason too?

[Razgovory]

Not really sure I get the treason charge.

He was interfering in government-to-government talks, and intentionally sabotaging the negotiations of his own government.
Is that a high crime or misdemeanor?  YMMV.

Hans told us it was treason back in 2004. 

[Sheilbh]

If the head of some US aid organization told the head of a developing country that voting for a US GATT proposal was not in their interest, would that be treason too?

Nope. But I'm sure you can see the differences.