Russia's double dealing on arms to Assad regime leaves UK isolated over Syria

Started by jimmy olsen, February 18, 2013, 07:10:19 PM

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jimmy olsen

Russia backed Assad so long that it's not like disengaging now would gain them anything with the Rebels once they took over, so I suppose it makes sense for them to keep backing Assad and hope for a miracle.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/revealed-russias-double-dealing-on-arms-to-assad-regime-leaves-uk-isolated-over-syria-strategy-8500385.html
Quote
Revealed: Russia's double dealing on arms to Assad regime leaves UK isolated over Syria strategy

Continuing sales to regime leave UK isolated over its strategy for Syria
Kim Sengupta Monday 18 February 2013


Russia has been accused by Western diplomats of reneging on a pledge to stop supplying arms to the Syrian regime. The assurances made over a month ago were presented by British officials as a sign that the Kremlin was distancing itself from President Bashar al-Assad and his ruling coterie.

The flow of arms has, however, continued unhindered with the Russians stressing that there was no United Nations prohibition on supplies and it was simply fulfilling its contractual obligations. As well as air- and naval-defence systems, the Kremlin may now be preparing to send Yak-130 jets which can be fitted with missiles to carry out ground attacks, according to American and European officials.

The Syrian regime has extensively used warplanes to carry out raids on heavily populated areas, leading to dozens of civilian casualties. Russia's state arms agency holds a $550m contract to supply 36 of the Yaks, which are trainers but can also be used on combat missions. Last year, a Russian-operated ship carrying helicopter gunships and air-defence missiles was forced to turn back to Russia, after its British insurers withdrew coverage. The aircraft were subsequently sent through a different shipping company.

While the Assad regime continues to receive weapons, from Iran as well as Russia, a British attempt to provide military aid to the Syrian rebels failed at a European Union meeting in Brussels today.

There was agreement, instead, on an amendment which would allow more "non-lethal" assistance to the opposition. But the outcome of the meeting in Brussels made it very clear that David Cameron's Government had been isolated in its efforts to strengthen militarily the moderate revolutionary factions, who have been increasingly sidelined by jihadist groups receiving arms and money from backers in the Gulf states.

Russia has insisted that it is within its rights to keep arming the regime as there are no UN resolutions prohibiting this. Anatoly Isaikin, the director of Rosoboronexport, said: "In the absence of [UN] sanctions, we are continuing to fulfil our contract obligations. We are mostly shipping air-defence systems and repair equipment intended for various branches of the military."

However, it is the Syrian regime's air defences, overhauled and upgraded with Russian help, which have been a powerful deterrent against the West declaring a "no-fly zone" of the type which, after it became a bombing campaign, brought down Muammar Gaddafi in Libya.

Western officials also claim that Moscow has refused to provide full details of the contractual obligations they have to fulfil and there is also evidence that the regime is getting further Russian arms through third parties.

Critics point to the British proposal on arming the rebels as an example of lack of clarity in the Western approach. The move had been opposed from the outset by Germany and Scandinavian countries as well as by Baroness Ashton, the British head of EU foreign affairs. "There is no shortage of arms in Syria," said Jean Asselborn, the Luxembourger Foreign Minister.

The French, who had backed the UK position, have become more lukewarm since the troops they sent to Mali found Western arms supplied to Libyan rebels in the jihadist arsenal. Yesterday, the Hollande government seemed satisfied with the agreement on non-lethal aid. "Technical assistance and protection of civilians will be easier," said Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius.

In the US, the outgoing Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, had advocated arming the rebels. The new defence secretary, Leon Panetta, also backed the move and stated that the head of US military, General Martin Dempsey, was also on board. However, General Dempsey and Barack Obama have publicly urged caution in the past over getting entangled in Syria.

The Russians, on the other hand, insist that their opposition to UN resolutions against the Assad regime, bitterly criticised by the US and Britain, has not stopped the building of growing links with the Syrian opposition.

Ahmad al-Khatib, the head of the Syrian National Coalition for Opposition Forces – set up at the instigation of the West to replace the Syrian National Council, which had become faction-ridden – has offered to hold direct talks with the regime.

Today, Ali Haidar, Mr Assad's minister for national reconciliation, responded: "We, the government and me personally, will meet, without exceptions, Syrian opposition groups inside and outside Syria."

It remains to be seen whether the talks will actually take place, but UN Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs Jeffrey Feltman held the offers were "the most promising thing we've heard on Syria recently".
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point



mongers

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Viking

Nothing we are learning today in Libya, Mali or Syria wasn't already learned in the 30's in Spain.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

mongers

Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
Nothing we are learning today in Libya, Mali or Syria wasn't already learned in the 30's in Spain.

Islamists=Fascists ?
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Neil

I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Viking

Quote from: mongers on February 18, 2013, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
Nothing we are learning today in Libya, Mali or Syria wasn't already learned in the 30's in Spain.

Islamists=Fascists ?

If the good guys implement a weapons boycott the bad guys will break it giving weapons to the bad guys in the conflict. The statement above is made with respect to supplying or embargoing weapons. The point being that the embargo will only apply to the good guys.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Josquius

██████
██████
██████

Viking

First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Razgovory

Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2013, 08:52:46 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 18, 2013, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
Nothing we are learning today in Libya, Mali or Syria wasn't already learned in the 30's in Spain.

Islamists=Fascists ?

If the good guys implement a weapons boycott the bad guys will break it giving weapons to the bad guys in the conflict. The statement above is made with respect to supplying or embargoing weapons. The point being that the embargo will only apply to the good guys.

Never figured Stalin as one of the "good guys".
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
Nothing we are learning today in Libya, Mali or Syria wasn't already learned in the 30's in Spain.

Or 90's Bosnia.

Quote"There is no shortage of arms in Syria,"

Heh.  Yeah I heard that before.  Which side in this conflict is more likely to have no shortage of arms?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

Quote from: Razgovory on February 18, 2013, 10:22:34 PM
Never figured Stalin as one of the "good guys".

Not sure how Stalin was one of the "good guys" in that scenario.  Rather Stalin proves his point.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Viking

Quote from: Razgovory on February 18, 2013, 10:22:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2013, 08:52:46 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 18, 2013, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 18, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
Nothing we are learning today in Libya, Mali or Syria wasn't already learned in the 30's in Spain.

Islamists=Fascists ?

If the good guys implement a weapons boycott the bad guys will break it giving weapons to the bad guys in the conflict. The statement above is made with respect to supplying or embargoing weapons. The point being that the embargo will only apply to the good guys.

Never figured Stalin as one of the "good guys".

Nobody suggested that. Soviets and Spanish Communists were both bad guys. The good guys were the republican government that did get embargoed.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Viking

Syria seems to be breaking the Anti-Israel alliance as it seems that Hizbullah has actively invaded Syria with as many as 1000 men and Hamas men have been volunteering in large numbers to fight for the rebels.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.