An "anti gay" story I am conflicted about

[Viking]

Okay, I'm not really into Comics, but why not just have Batman age and be replaced by a new Batman.  Like by Robin or some long lost relative.  Or just make him really fucking old.

Bruce Wayne died (well... the reality is more complicated and too goofy to go into here) and was replaced by Dick Grayson.  That was cool, as Grayson has a much different (and more interesting) personality than Wayne, and this briefly made me interested in Batman.  Unfortunately, it didn't last.  At DC, it never does.  The replacement Flash, Green Lantern, and Green Arrow had already been retired or marginalized in favor of their previously dead, and always duller, predecessors.  I sort of understood the latter two, but it surprised me a lot when they did it to Wally West (the Flash) since he was the Flash all but the oldest comic book nerds grew up with, and Barry Allen (his predecessor, first appearing in 1956, and dying in 1985) is inferior in pretty much all respects.

That's what the whole new 52 is about. Flashpoint resets all continuity by having wally-flash and reverse-flash tit-for-tat reset history at an earlier and earlier point. iirc wally-flash wins by resetting himself out of existence meaning reverse-flash never exists meaning he never starts the flashpoint event meaning original barry-flash exists again.. it's all very convoluted.

Though, I may remember the whole thing wrong.... The DC resets are messy, especially so since DC really doesn't bother with continuity between them.

[Neil]

Okay, I'm not really into Comics, but why not just have Batman age and be replaced by a new Batman.  Like by Robin or some long lost relative.  Or just make him really fucking old.

Bruce Wayne died (well... the reality is more complicated and too goofy to go into here) and was replaced by Dick Grayson.  That was cool, as Grayson has a much different (and more interesting) personality than Wayne, and this briefly made me interested in Batman.  Unfortunately, it didn't last.  At DC, it never does.  The replacement Flash, Green Lantern, and Green Arrow had already been retired or marginalized in favor of their previously dead, and always duller, predecessors.  I sort of understood the latter two, but it surprised me a lot when they did it to Wally West (the Flash) since he was the Flash all but the oldest comic book nerds grew up with, and Barry Allen (his predecessor, first appearing in 1956, and dying in 1985) is inferior in pretty much all respects.

Nolan wasn't making movies about Nightwing.  Blame your boy.

And there is no way that Kyle Rayner is more interesting than Hal Jordan.  You're probably  the sort of guy who prefers some random spic teenager to Ted Kord.

[Viking]

Anyway, I preferred both teenage and pregnant Batgirl and breath (all kinds) and martial arts (all kinds) Batgirl to Barbara Gordon, whom I never particularly cared about, but especially when she became Oracle (I HAVE A MAGIC COMPUTER).  Unfortunately, I forget what they even did with Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain they ruined very early on by giving her the ability to speak via telepathy/plot convenience, hence disposing themselves of any and all of the inherently interesting elements they'd set up with a mute/quasi-feral woman.

Cassie's superpowers were nerfed by allowing her to speak. She was still too overpowered. I never really liked her. Mute characters do not work in comic books unless they are super expressive in feature and gesture. The image-comic format means you don't see the gestures in motion and putting a mask not only on the head and eyes but the mouth as well sort of negates the rest. No winks, smiles, frowns or any kind of facial feature means she can't show emotion, fortunately for the character she didn't have any.

Stephanie "no longer exists" after flashpoint. Her last issue has her exposing her dad as "chief plotter" in the longer arc going on at the time. The last few images of Batgirl #24 has her "future" as batgirl, nightwing and mother. The writer of the smallville season 11 comic wanted her to be nightwing in that, but they went with Barbara, apparently

http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2012/07/nightwing-swapped-out-in-smallville/

Chuck Dixon, the co-creator of Stephanie Brown, says it sure seems like someone doesn't like the character, despite the critical acclaim of her solo series as Batgirl by Smallville Season 11 writer Miller.

"Someone at DC does not like Stephanie Brown. They killed her and now they're removing her from books," Dixon said. "I don't mean to be paranoid but the Spoiler's never even had an action figure and Mister Terrific has had two. (if you just asked yourself "Who?", you're not alone) I only created Steph as a plot device for an arc in Detective Comics. But the fans asked for more in in fact ASSUMED there would be more. And fan assumptions are a powerful force."

and even worse

http://www.wired.com/geekmom/2012/06/bat-character-that-wont-die/

Steph moved from The Spoiler to a blonde-haired Robin but quickly became cannon fodder as she was tortured by the villain Black Mask and died at the end of the War Games crossover. To add insult to injury, DC even offered a Black Mask figurine complete with the tools used to torture Steph.

[Viking]

Nolan wasn't making movies about Nightwing.  Blame your boy.

And there is no way that Kyle Rayner is more interesting than Hal Jordan.  You're probably  the sort of guy who prefers some random spic teenager to Ted Kord.

A Guy Gardiner GL Movie might work, if only because Guy is a douche.

[Ideologue]

Okay, I'm not really into Comics, but why not just have Batman age and be replaced by a new Batman.  Like by Robin or some long lost relative.  Or just make him really fucking old.

Bruce Wayne died (well... the reality is more complicated and too goofy to go into here) and was replaced by Dick Grayson.  That was cool, as Grayson has a much different (and more interesting) personality than Wayne, and this briefly made me interested in Batman.  Unfortunately, it didn't last.  At DC, it never does.  The replacement Flash, Green Lantern, and Green Arrow had already been retired or marginalized in favor of their previously dead, and always duller, predecessors.  I sort of understood the latter two, but it surprised me a lot when they did it to Wally West (the Flash) since he was the Flash all but the oldest comic book nerds grew up with, and Barry Allen (his predecessor, first appearing in 1956, and dying in 1985) is inferior in pretty much all respects.

Nolan wasn't making movies about Nightwing.  Blame your boy.

And there is no way that Kyle Rayner is more interesting than Hal Jordan.  You're probably  the sort of guy who prefers some random spic teenager to Ted Kord.

Sometimes I think you don't even know me. 

[Neil]

Then don't talk shit about Jordan and Kord.

[Razgovory]

Why does Batman even need a sidekick?  Especially underage ones?  The only reason I could think of is as a replacement.  Maybe he feels if he looks better if someone even worse dressed is with him.

[Viking]

Why does Batman even need a sidekick?  Especially underage ones?  The only reason I could think of is as a replacement.  Maybe he feels if he looks better if someone even worse dressed is with him.

1. He needs a "Watson" to explain his reasoning to without endless thought bubbles.
2. He, or his comic book, needs an entry point for kids to imagine themselves into the story.
3. He needs a "Lois Lane" to be rescued.
4. He, or his book, needs occasional comic relief.

and

5. Since 1984 ish, he needs them to pose as anti-thesis to his thesis when bringing up moral topics.

[Ideologue]

Then don't talk shit about Jordan and Kord.

I specifically left Ted Kord out of the discussion.  JLI forever.

[Neil]

Then don't talk shit about Jordan and Kord.

I specifically left Ted Kord out of the discussion.  JLI forever.

Well, that's good.

But how are any of the other Lanterns the equal of Jordan?

[Viking]

Then don't talk shit about Jordan and Kord.

I specifically left Ted Kord out of the discussion.  JLI forever.

Well, that's good.

But how are any of the other Lanterns the equal of Jordan?

By not being limited by his silver age origin?

[Neil]

Then don't talk shit about Jordan and Kord.

I specifically left Ted Kord out of the discussion.  JLI forever.

Well, that's good.

But how are any of the other Lanterns the equal of Jordan?

By not being limited by his silver age origin?

I don't think that Jordan's origin limits him at all.

[Viking]

Then don't talk shit about Jordan and Kord.

I specifically left Ted Kord out of the discussion.  JLI forever.

Well, that's good.

But how are any of the other Lanterns the equal of Jordan?

By not being limited by his silver age origin?

I don't think that Jordan's origin limits him at all.

It just makes him more of a generic hero type than the later lanterns.

[Neil]

Then don't talk shit about Jordan and Kord.

I specifically left Ted Kord out of the discussion.  JLI forever.

Well, that's good.

But how are any of the other Lanterns the equal of Jordan?

By not being limited by his silver age origin?

I don't think that Jordan's origin limits him at all.

It just makes him more of a generic hero type than the later lanterns.

Except John Stewart, Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner all have similar origin stories, becuase that's how the Green Lantern rings work.

[Viking]

Except John Stewart, Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner all have similar origin stories, becuase that's how the Green Lantern rings work.

The issue isn't origins, but rather the characters themselves. The later lanterns came into existence at a time when there were higher expectations of characterization and personality. Jordan is a test pilot without fear, people like that don't exist in reality. A juvenile delinquent, a veteran with a grudge and a wishy washy graphic designer (why this guy wasn't the gay lantern I don't know) are real characters as opposed to the hero type that jordan is.