Pope Benedict XVI 'is to resign'

[Caliga]

They might think that if they choose a Spanish cardinal, the Spanish might flock back to the Church.

[The Larch]

Around 10% of the population of the whole continent, with some countries at 20% or so like Brazil and growing is hardly something isolated.

Larch, say they were to make the Archbishop of Mexico the next pope. Would that generate any excitement in Spain?

Don't think so. Maybe amongst the hard-core, but the population at large would shrug their shoulders and go on.

[Iormlund]

I doubt that is clear to the cardinals, however.

Oh it's clear alright. I'm not their greatest fan, but there are fairly intelligent people among the higher ups. They've seen this coming for decades. The last popes have been making great efforts to bring us back to the right path. But it's all for naught.

Younger generations are markedly uninterested in religion, and the crisis is killing the influx of South American believers.

[The Larch]

They might think that if they choose a Spanish cardinal, the Spanish might flock back to the Church.

Nah, our cardinals are a bunch of reactionaries and ultra conservatives with zero connection to the people.

[Iormlund]

They might think that if they choose a Spanish cardinal, the Spanish might flock back to the Church.

Nah, our cardinals are a bunch of reactionaries and ultra conservatives with zero connection to the people.

Except the guy in Seville (IIRC), but he doesn't really stand a chance for that very same reason.

[Iormlund]

It's telling that despite an overwhelming conservative majority, Rajoy treads very lightly on gay marriage/adoption.

It's also interesting that the man in charge of turning the clock back on abortion had the worst job approval rates in the government before the recent scandal broke.

[Drakken]

Really unlikely. Not even if they chose a Spaniard. Which they shouldn't, since it's pretty clear that Catholicism has lost Spain (and Europe) for good.

I wouldn't say Catholicism is lost in Europe, as it is still the basis of judeo-christian social norms and tradition. I'd say that 19th-century Catholicism, though, is as dead in Europe as its mores. We are still waiting for the application of the new reform ideas promised by Vatican II.

If the Church accepted to make way for an understanding with secularism, rather than rejecting it outright, you'd find more people willing to call themselves Catholic. That said, I can understand conservative Catholics to refuse any concession out of the fear it might lead to watering down the Church doctrine.

[Barrister]

Really unlikely. Not even if they chose a Spaniard. Which they shouldn't, since it's pretty clear that Catholicism has lost Spain (and Europe) for good.

I wouldn't say Catholicism is lost in Europe, as it is still the basis of judeo-christian social norms and tradition. I'd say that 19th-century Catholicism, though, is as dead in Europe as its mores. We are still waiting for the application of the new reform ideas promised by Vatican II.

If the Church accepted to make way for an understanding with secularism, rather than rejecting it outright, you'd find more people willing to call themselves Catholic.

I dunno man.  I think there's a reason the fastest-growing churches are fundamentalist, not liberal.

[Viking]

Larch, say they were to make the Archbishop of Cologne the next pope. Would that generate any excitement in Bavaria?

Really unlikely. Not even if they chose a Bavarian. Which they shouldn't, since it's pretty clear that Catholicism has lost Bavaria (and Europe) for good.

fyp

[Drakken]

I dunno man.  I think there's a reason the fastest-growing churches are fundamentalist, not liberal.

Because it's simpler. Most of these are holier-than-thou "Praise Jesus and hate sinners as much as sin" doctrines centered around a charismatic preacher, and are closer in spirit to cults rather than churches.

Catholicism is not like that anymore. We have hundreds of years of doctrine, preconceived notions, and rituals that make the system feel very hermetic and resistant to change, with next to no impact and input from the practitionners allowed from bottom to top.

[Iormlund]

If the Church accepted to make way for an understanding with secularism, rather than rejecting it outright, you'd find more people willing to call themselves Catholic.

I'm with Drakken on this one. There's no going back. Religion has simply nothing interesting to offer to potential customers.

By the way, a lot of people call themselves Catholic. The problem for the Church is few of those truly are.

[Zanza]

Really unlikely. Not even if they chose a Spaniard. Which they shouldn't, since it's pretty clear that Catholicism has lost Spain (and Europe) for good.

I wouldn't say Catholicism is lost in Europe, as it is still the basis of judeo-christian social norms and tradition. I'd say that 19th-century Catholicism, though, is as dead in Europe as its mores. We are still waiting for the application of the new reform ideas promised by Vatican II.

If the Church accepted to make way for an understanding with secularism, rather than rejecting it outright, you'd find more people willing to call themselves Catholic.

I dunno man.  I think there's a reason the fastest-growing churches are fundamentalist, not liberal.

Fundamentalist churches seem to be small fringe groups here though. The by far fastest-growing group seem to be people that just don't care for religion. Not even atheists, just people that don't give a fuck.

[mongers]

Sorry getting massive coverage in the media here, yet I suspect huge disinterest from the populous; on the bbc news website the pope story is 5th most read well behind the top story about Tesco value bolognese being horse-meat.   

Most Popular - Read

1: Tesco value bolognese 60% horsemeat

2: Man holding chips fights off attack

3: Facebook sued over 'like' button

4: Mother 'saw son shot in the pub'

5: Pope Benedict in shock resignation

6: One walker found dead on mountain

[Drakken]

By the way, a lot of people call themselves Catholic. The problem for the Church is few of those truly are.

Yes, it's the attitude of "picking and choosing" what doctrine we'd like to follow, from many lapsed Catholics myself included, that turns off even the Catholic Church from even trying in the first place.

With the Catholic Church, either you believe the full dogma, or you don't. If you don't believe in miracles, or the resurrection of Christ, or Transubstantation, or that every sperm is sacred, or that salvation comes through both grace and works, or that one mortal sin left is enough to leave you suffering in Hell in the total absence from God, then you are lapsed.

[Barrister]

I dunno man.  I think there's a reason the fastest-growing churches are fundamentalist, not liberal.

Because it's simpler. Most of these are holier-than-thou "Praise Jesus and hate sinners as much as sin" doctrines centered around a charismatic preacher, and are closer in spirit to cults rather than churches.

Catholicism is not like that anymore. We have hundreds of years of doctrine, preconceived notions, and rituals that make the system feel very hermetic and resistant to change, with next to no impact and input from the practitionners allowed from bottom to top.

Catholicism has shown that it can be endlessly flexible.  There's the theology and doctrine, of course (and by the way the evangelicals do have those as well), but there's also how it is presented.

I don't think the RCC will get more adherents by being more liberal is all I'm saying.