Gay marriage in UK set for vote

[Gups]

In fairness this did pass and it was a free vote. It's a failure of his leadership though.

One interesting note is what the role of an MP is, especially on these sorts of issues. There were a number of MPs (some of whom are secretly gay) who personally support gay marriage but believed their constituents were opposed, and vice-versa. They viewed themselves as delegates and voted for their constituents' perceived wishes.

Nope, they were voting in accordance with their constiuency party's wishes for fear of deselection. There's a big difference.

[garbon]

So its fair to say the tories are still homophobic (and by extension racist poor people haters).

I think he just called you a poor.

No sweat off my back. It's Jos.

[garbon]

Valms that was a fair comment.

[LaCroix]

i don't see how others could possibly vote to reject a person's sexual preference ( ) and dismiss it as not being of marriageable quality. it's silly, really

[garbon]

i don't see how others could possibly vote to reject a person's sexual preference ( ) and dismiss it as not being of marriageable quality. it's silly, really

You don't believe in sexual preferences? You don't want the gov't to have to spend extra time with licenses? You don't want the validation given to same-sex relationships that such a move incurs.  All of those strike me as non-silly (though wrongheaded) reasons for voting against this. 

Of course, if I was grumbly, I'd say that it is a good thinking they were voting to accept or reject a sexual preference.

[Neil]

i don't see how others could possibly vote to reject a person's sexual preference ( ) and dismiss it as not being of marriageable quality. it's silly, really

It's easy.  We don't let Grallon, Martinus or Ide marry 10-year olds, nor do we let the Brain marry a goat, or Tim marry a pillow with an anime character printed on it.

[LaCroix]

Martinus

what, exactly, do you have against tarantino?

[Neil]

Martinus

what, exactly, do you have against tarantino?

I didn't like Jackie Brown.

[LaCroix]

what have you against cdm? everyone needs a true love

[Eddie Teach]

It's easy.  We don't let Grallon, Martinus or Ide marry 10-year olds, nor do we let the Brain marry a goat, or Tim marry a pillow with an anime character printed on it.

I could see lettow having an extended chaste courtship of a pillow.

[Martinus]

i don't see how others could possibly vote to reject a person's sexual preference ( ) and dismiss it as not being of marriageable quality. it's silly, really

I think all of this comes from the impression many today's religious people have, i.e. that they are being beaten on every front. Essentially the religious experience of the last two hundred years or so (if not longer) is that of constant retreat from various aspects of life - first science, then politics, law, etc.

This, even in countries where religion is still strong, creates a "besieged fortress" mentality, where religious conservatives are not reacting logically any more, but have this sort of knee-jerk attitude of refusing to budge even an inch on any issue, because they are afraid this will be just another of their many losses and defeats.

Incidentally, it is also interesting to see how the religious discourse seems to deteriorate intellectually over the recent decades - hardly anyone asks big theological questions any more, at least in public - the conservative religious outlook these days is so materialistic and biological, it would make Karl Marx proud - it concentrates on human reproduction and biological gender, and rejects everything else.

[LaCroix]

i dunno. i mean, yes, religious scripture as it stands in most circles is against it. however, i think to most people that's more of an excuse. a lot of people i interact with seem revolted by it because it's different. it is so completely against what they view as the norm. whenever i relate the story of how i befriended a gay guy, who would hit on me in a completely ridiculous and extremely unsubtle manner.. they say, "why did you hang out with him!" and other comments. and these people aren't deeply religious. i think it stems from the fact homosexuals are different from the norm, and everything followed after that

(edit) after re-reading the post, i realize hanging out with someone who's hitting on me probably isn't the best example. other examples i've seen are when i comment that i saw some guy making out with another dude - everyone pretty much exclaims, "gross," "sick," and other remarks that show their disgust. these aren't extremist christians by any means; some are even obvious liberals... i just think religion is too obvious an answer

[Eddie Teach]

Well, there's a lot of people who hate PDAs no matter what sexes are involved. Look at the reaction to the GoDaddy Super Bowl ad.

[LaCroix]

Well, there's a lot of people who hate PDAs no matter what sexes are involved. Look at the reaction to the GoDaddy Super Bowl ad.

that ad went above and beyond. the slurping and suckling noises were absolutely disgusting, and i'm no puritan 

[MadImmortalMan]

i don't see how others could possibly vote to reject a person's sexual preference ( ) and dismiss it as not being of marriageable quality. it's silly, really

I think all of this comes from the impression many today's religious people have, i.e. that they are being beaten on every front. Essentially the religious experience of the last two hundred years or so (if not longer) is that of constant retreat from various aspects of life - first science, then politics, law, etc.

This, even in countries where religion is still strong, creates a "besieged fortress" mentality, where religious conservatives are not reacting logically any more, but have this sort of knee-jerk attitude of refusing to budge even an inch on any issue, because they are afraid this will be just another of their many losses and defeats.

Incidentally, it is also interesting to see how the religious discourse seems to deteriorate intellectually over the recent decades - hardly anyone asks big theological questions any more, at least in public - the conservative religious outlook these days is so materialistic and biological, it would make Karl Marx proud - it concentrates on human reproduction and biological gender, and rejects everything else.

There's a lot of truth in this, yes. I would mention though that the religious community is very split when it comes to this stuff. I don't know the breakdown, but it's probably close to 50/50 between the ones described above and the ones who more or less don't want to fight the culture wars. The latter are fairly accepting of the changes.