Do you have a written employment contract?

[Sheilbh]

Oh and in the UK we get an extra little section waiving the EU working hours directive, so we can work more than 48 hours a week. Yippee!!! 

As RH said in the other thread, subversive ideas like this lead to European totalitarianism.

The Tories are obsessed with the working hours directive. I think it's their only idea for helping the economy grow. As far as I can see business is generally indifferent over it

[Martinus]

I think the problem Brits have with the EU (to which I have already alluded in the thread about the guy sentenced to 5 years in jail for posting shit on Facebook) is that you approach the implementation of EU directives with a bureaucratic zeal unparalleled by anyone in Europe, with a possible exception of Germans.

In Poland, the working hours directive is implemented, but it is largely ignored, especially in more creative/flexible lines of business. It is used mainly to curb grosser excesses and protect employees in businesses such as retail discount chains where employees are often exploited.

[Sheilbh]

Actually that's a common moan. There's a view that we follow all the rules while lots of other Euronations just ignore and flout them. I don't think it's often true though.

And even when it is true (the eggs story springs to mind), it is part of British anti-Europe feelings, but it's only a part of a fulsome whole of Euroscepticism

Edit: Incidentally we can opt out of our working time rights. How do, say, lawyers in other countries deal with it? Or does it not apply to those sort of professions? And as I say my impression is that businesses really, really don't care about it - but it's a Tory fixed idea that the only way to growth is for the most liberal employment laws in Europe to get more liberal

[Syt]

The working hour directives are enforced in Austria only for normal employees, not for management level, self-employed and equivalents etc.

[dps]

Related question: How do legal proceedings on employment work in your place if you don't have a written contract? Let's say you were promised a certain amount of pay or vacation and the employer later does not actually give it to you.

The same way any disagrement over provisions of an unwritten contract would be dealt with in a legal setting--if you can prove that those provisions were agreed on, or the other party admits to them, then they're still usually enforcable.

Which is kind of the point of having a written contract...

Incidentally, love the litigation involving disagreement over provisions of an unwritten contract, where one party admits to claims of the other party, concerning the contract's terms - happens all the fucking time.

Yeah, though as best as I can tell, in most cases that actually get to trial, the dispute isn't about whether or not certain provisions exist, it's about something else.  For example, if you were a building contractor and you're suing someone because they didn't pay you for work done on their home, they're not likely to claim that they hadn't agreed to pay you a certain amount, but instead claim that the work wasn't done in a proper or timely manner (which might still happen even with a written contract).

[Martinus]

The working hour directives are enforced in Austria only for normal employees, not for management level, self-employed and equivalents etc.

Same here. In fact, most lawyers in Poland are not employed subject to employment contracts, but B2B consultancy agreements (as this allows us to pay a 19% flat income tax rate, among other things).

[Barrister]

Do I have a written contract?  It's complicated.

There is no single written contract.  When I was hired I was given a letter which stated my salary.  I had to sign and return it, so I guess it's partially a contract.

However I am also subject to various Treasury Board directives, which state other benefits I am entitled to.  So they can be removed without my say-so, but it is not easy for government to do.  Many of them are also tied to benefits that unionized government employees have (and they of course do have collectively bargained contracts).

[crazy canuck]

If you are an employer, feel free to answer for your employees. Do they have a written contract with you?

Yes our employees have contracts in the form of letter agreements which set out the material terms of their employment.

Related question: How do legal proceedings on employment work in your place if you don't have a written contract? Let's say you were promised a certain amount of pay or vacation and the employer later does not actually give it to you.

If there is no written contract the law implies certain terms.  Those implied terms are most favourable to the employee so it is hte employers interest to have written contracts.

In addition no contract (either written or unwritten) may provide less benefits then the minimum standards in our employment standards legislation - ie an employer cannot use their unequal bargaining position to demand that employers opt out of legislated protections.  Those minimum standards include such things as vacation pay (which was a topic some time ago) and minimum severance pay.

[Zanza]

Edit: Incidentally we can opt out of our working time rights. How do, say, lawyers in other countries deal with it? Or does it not apply to those sort of professions? And as I say my impression is that businesses really, really don't care about it - but it's a Tory fixed idea that the only way to growth is for the most liberal employment laws in Europe to get more liberal

As far as I can tell, the working time directive is taken seriously mainly in say blue-collar jobs or in retail in big companies. In smaller companies, there is no one who could enforce it, and for academic jobs in most bigger companies, it is expected that you work more than your contract says and that you work more than 48 hours if necessary too.

[Zanza]

Do I have a written contract?  It's complicated.

There is no single written contract.  When I was hired I was given a letter which stated my salary.  I had to sign and return it, so I guess it's partially a contract.

However I am also subject to various Treasury Board directives, which state other benefits I am entitled to.  So they can be removed without my say-so, but it is not easy for government to do.  Many of them are also tied to benefits that unionized government employees have (and they of course do have collectively bargained contracts).

I think that's quite common. My contract has a lot of clauses like "The company pension plan applies" or "The termination period is defined in the union agreement". There is actually very few parts of my contract that are negotiable, mainly salary and hours worked.

[Sheilbh]

Out of interest does work to rule industrial action exist in the US?

[Barrister]

Out of interest does work to rule industrial action exist in the US?

Yes.  Supposedly American Airlines workers are following such a strategy.

(I know this because my tickets to Brazil are on American )

[crazy canuck]

I think that's quite common. My contract has a lot of clauses like "The company pension plan applies" or "The termination period is defined in the union agreement". There is actually very few parts of my contract that are negotiable, mainly salary and hours worked.

If you are in a union I am surprised that you even have a separate contract of employment.  Here all terms and conditions of employment of a unionized employee are governed by the collective agreement negotiated between union and employer.  Separate contracts between the employee and employer are not possible for unionized employees.

[Zanza]

My job is unionized, but I am not in a union. We are a fairly liberal country as far as unions go. So while unions are very well protected by the law, an individual can never be forced to be a member.

However, the employers negotiate a general deal with the unions that applies to all workers in a certain industry. So my salary is based on a set of tables that applies for several million employees in the "metal" industry (that covers everything from steel mills to machine building to automotive) in Germany. However, the union agreement only sets a certain minimum standard. The workers council of your own company and finally yourself can negotiate further provisions with the employer. The workers council often negotiates things like a Christmas or profit bonus or rules of conduct and you yourself can negotiate your personal bonus or more salary than stipulated in the union contract.

[Syt]

I think the only time I didn't have a proper contract was when I was sworn in as public administrations clerk trainee.