Kohlberg in Action!

[Malthus]

Carl said something the other day that made me think of innumerable discussions in this place.

The context was some bratty actions of his (older) cousins, who were over at my house for a party. The ended up downstairs playing with a little toy tent I got for Carl, and were temporarily out of adult sight, when they proceeded to trash the tent - and broke the rods holding it together. Little bastards. 

Anyway, Carl was surveying the damage the next day, and said "poor tent is broken. [The Cousins] broke my tent".

Then he proceeded to the following dialogue, which could have been lifted verbatim from a Kohlberg paper:

[Carl] "Breaking other people's things is naughty".

[Me] "Why is it naughty?"

[Carl] "Because mommy will make you "time-out"".

[Me] "But [the Cousin's] mommies didn't make them "time-out" when they broke your tent [true: they never punish their brats, which is why they are insufferable brats]"

[Carl] "They should have. Breaking things is naughty".

[Pedrito]

I feel dizzy. Just like when I read Bmolsson's posts.

L.

[Malthus]

I feel dizzy. Just like when I read Bmolsson's posts.

L.

Carl's not ready for the dealership in Borneo. 

[Eddie Teach]

Kohlberg used circular reasoning?

[Martinus]

I'm waiting for grumbler to arrive in order to demolish the logical inconsistencies in Carl's argument.

Anyway, it must be great having a kid.

[Malthus]

Kohlberg used circular reasoning?

Kohlberg was classifying how others reasoned. You can't really expect perfect logic from a three year old.

Point is that this is a pretty good illustration of stage 1 reasoning: doing certain things are "bad" because you will be punished by an authority figure.

The fact that the appropriate authority figures failed to impose the expected punishment creates a dilemma for poor Carl, which is leading him to a more abstract sort of reasoning ("...they should have").

Thus, from an example of "something that will get you punished", he's starting to develop principles or axioms - that "breaking  other people's things is naughty" irrespective of actual punishment - and to in effect evaluate the actions of authority figures: failure to punish for breaking things = wrong.

[Valmy]

Wow 'Time Out' really works as a deterrent eh?  Raising kids is going to be easier than I thought. 

[Slargos]

Kohlberg used circular reasoning?

Kohlberg was classifying how others reasoned. You can't really expect perfect logic from a three year old.

Point is that this is a pretty good illustration of stage 1 reasoning: doing certain things are "bad" because you will be punished by an authority figure.

The fact that the appropriate authority figures failed to impose the expected punishment creates a dilemma for poor Carl, which is leading him to a more abstract sort of reasoning ("...they should have").

I was going to congratulate you over the fact that your kid already exhibits a more acute sense of morality than a lot of languishites, but then I realized that it could potentially sound like fighting words, comparing the boy to this cesspool of filth and scum. It's the thought that counts, though, I say.

[Malthus]

Wow 'Time Out' really works as a deterrent eh?  Raising kids is going to be easier than I thought. 

The secret is consistency. Anything clearly understood as a punishment and applied with justice and consistency will "work". For an active three year old, being forced to sit still for a minute and do nothing is an effective punishment for minor transgressions - but remember, to enforce it you have to do the same, deal with resulting whining and tantrums, etc. Believe me, this isn't always easy, particularly if you are doing something *you* want to do (like eating your dinner).

[Martinus]

Wow 'Time Out' really works as a deterrent eh?  Raising kids is going to be easier than I thought. 

The secret is consistency. Anything clearly understood as a punishment and applied with justice and consistency will "work". For an active three year old, being forced to sit still for a minute and do nothing is an effective punishment for minor transgressions - but remember, to enforce it you have to do the same, deal with resulting whining and tantrums, etc. Believe me, this isn't always easy, particularly if you are doing something *you* want to do (like eating your dinner).

Oh, I thought "time out" meant you knocked him unconscious.

[Malthus]

I was going to congratulate you over the fact that your kid already exhibits a more acute sense of morality than a lot of languishites, but then I realized that it could potentially sound like fighting words, comparing the boy to this cesspool of filth and scum. It's the thought that counts, though, I say.

I thought you didn't believe in morality. 

[Malthus]

Oh, I thought "time out" meant you knocked him unconscious.

That, while harsh, would also work.

Of course the brain damage from repeated concussions could prevent him from articulating more advanced moral concepts in the future. 

[Slargos]

I was going to congratulate you over the fact that your kid already exhibits a more acute sense of morality than a lot of languishites, but then I realized that it could potentially sound like fighting words, comparing the boy to this cesspool of filth and scum. It's the thought that counts, though, I say.

I thought you didn't believe in morality. 

I believe in moralities.

[Malthus]

I was going to congratulate you over the fact that your kid already exhibits a more acute sense of morality than a lot of languishites, but then I realized that it could potentially sound like fighting words, comparing the boy to this cesspool of filth and scum. It's the thought that counts, though, I say.

I thought you didn't believe in morality. 

I believe in moralities.

But some are more "acute" than others, right? 

[Malthus]

I'm waiting for grumbler to arrive in order to demolish the logical inconsistencies in Carl's argument.

Anyway, it must be great having a kid.

Sometimes ... the worst part, I have found, in that the kid is a walking illness factory. Have a kid and you will get sick a lot ... while having to take care of a sick, cranky kid. Unfun.