Kohlberg in Action!

[derspiess]

my way*, which consisted of moving my first son into a separate room next to our bedroom after his first birthday.

So he slept in your room until he was a year old?

[Josquius]

Says who?

North American ashkenazi jews are funny. You guys let the black hats tell you what you are and what you aren't. You need to live in israel for a while and learn to be free. According to our enemies, and according to the State of Israel, your kid is jewish. You should teach him that, regardless, so he doesn't get surprissed when the wolves come knocking on the door.

I thought you worked in Eretz for a while, didn't you? How come you don't know that your kid is jewish?

His kid is only 1/4 Jewish.

Depends on how you measure these things. Accoeding to our wierd Ashkenazi ways, ethnicity is matrilinial in the same way that one's last name is patrilinial; I get my father's last name and my mother's ethnicity. I am not half-[last name] and I am not half-Jewish; similarly, my kid has my last name, but not my ethnicity.

That says nothing about what parts of his heritage he will choose to sympathize with.

How come the world isn't full of non-Jewish Weinsteins with this way of doing things?

[Slargos]

my way*, which consisted of moving my first son into a separate room next to our bedroom after his first birthday.

So he slept in your room until he was a year old?

Not everyone keeps their newborn in the dog-pen in order to determine whether they are strong enough to be allowed to live, you monster. 

[Ed Anger]

my way*, which consisted of moving my first son into a separate room next to our bedroom after his first birthday.

So he slept in your room until he was a year old?

Not everyone keeps their newborn in the dog-pen in order to determine whether they are strong enough to be allowed to live, you monster. 

THIS IS SPARTA!

[Siege]

Says who?

North American ashkenazi jews are funny. You guys let the black hats tell you what you are and what you aren't. You need to live in israel for a while and learn to be free. According to our enemies, and according to the State of Israel, your kid is jewish. You should teach him that, regardless, so he doesn't get surprissed when the wolves come knocking on the door.

I thought you worked in Eretz for a while, didn't you? How come you don't know that your kid is jewish?

His kid is only 1/4 Jewish.

Depends on how you measure these things. Accoeding to our wierd Ashkenazi ways, ethnicity is matrilinial in the same way that one's last name is patrilinial; I get my father's last name and my mother's ethnicity. I am not half-[last name] and I am not half-Jewish; similarly, my kid has my last name, but not my ethnicity.

That says nothing about what parts of his heritage he will choose to sympathize with.

How come the world isn't full of non-Jewish Weinsteins with this way of doing things?

Because Malthus is using the most ashkenazi orthodox view on who's jew or not, to justify his kid not being jewish.

He doesn't want his boy to be jewish.

[Malthus]

I agree, incidentally, but I see you've got the requisite "if you don't raise your kid like I do, you' re worse than Hitler" routine down pat. 

Heh, I'm usually pretty open to multiple ways of doing things - but a total lack of discipline is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, as Carl's cousins are being raised with this approach and I routinely have to suffer the results. 

And I should know, I remember this conversation I had with my friend about the values of something called "co-sleeping" (my friend's way) vs. my way*, which consisted of moving my first son into a separate room next to our bedroom after his first birthday. Which took some tough love to implement at first, but I was (silently) mortified by his (in my view then) mollycoddling, heretical ways, and we kept politely raising each other's bloodpressure talking about the various pros and cons, until I realized that we were both speaking in sharp clipped sentences to each other, and that I was being a dick.     

The running joke between us for the next few months consisted of mock insults about parenting skills and speculation on the various ways in which our boys would enlist our help in the cruel fight with strict Mommy.


* The One True Path To Parental Salvation, btw.   

Our kid never slept in our room at all, so I avoided this. 

[Malthus]

Says who?

North American ashkenazi jews are funny. You guys let the black hats tell you what you are and what you aren't. You need to live in israel for a while and learn to be free. According to our enemies, and according to the State of Israel, your kid is jewish. You should teach him that, regardless, so he doesn't get surprissed when the wolves come knocking on the door.

I thought you worked in Eretz for a while, didn't you? How come you don't know that your kid is jewish?

His kid is only 1/4 Jewish.

Depends on how you measure these things. Accoeding to our wierd Ashkenazi ways, ethnicity is matrilinial in the same way that one's last name is patrilinial; I get my father's last name and my mother's ethnicity. I am not half-[last name] and I am not half-Jewish; similarly, my kid has my last name, but not my ethnicity.

That says nothing about what parts of his heritage he will choose to sympathize with.

How come the world isn't full of non-Jewish Weinsteins with this way of doing things?

For one, many Jews marry other Jews.

With intermarriage common, you will indeed see lots of non-Jewish people with Jewish last names.

[crazy canuck]

my way*, which consisted of moving my first son into a separate room next to our bedroom after his first birthday.

So he slept in your room until he was a year old?

Mollycoddling at its worst. 

[Malthus]

Because Malthus is using the most ashkenazi orthodox view on who's jew or not, to justify his kid not being jewish.

He doesn't want his boy to be jewish.

Don't be silly. There is no "one drop rule" for Judaism, whatever Nazi types might think.

Look at it this way - I'm 100% Jewish in spite of having only one Jewish parent, under The Rules(tm); Carl has only one Jewish grandparent - of his four immediate ancestors, one is Jewish, one is Anglo, and two are Ukranian. It is a trifle odd to insist that he is born "Jewish" under these circumstances, when he is not Jewish under The Rules(tm) created by Rabbis for this sort of thing and his ancestry is only 1/4 Jewish.

I'm perfectly proud of being Jewish myself - why would I not want Carl to be? But by any rational measure, he isn't *born* to it. If he later *chooses* to identify with that strain of his ethnic heritage, I'll be happy with that.

[Valmy]

I'm perfectly proud of being Jewish myself - why would I not want Carl to be? But by any rational measure, he isn't *born* to it. If he later *chooses* to identify with that strain of his ethnic heritage, I'll be happy with that.

And why wouldn't he be?

You have Einstein on your side...what do the Ukrainians have to counter that?

[Eddie Teach]

I'm perfectly proud of being Jewish myself - why would I not want Carl to be? But by any rational measure, he isn't *born* to it. If he later *chooses* to identify with that strain of his ethnic heritage, I'll be happy with that.

And why wouldn't he be?

You have Einstein on your side...what do the Ukrainians have to counter that?

I see you neglected the most successful strain. 

[Valmy]

I see you neglected the most successful strain. 

But neither of his Parents really identify with old Blighty except to the extent they are Canadians

[Malthus]

I see you neglected the most successful strain. 

But neither of his Parents really identify with old Blighty except to the extent they are Canadians

By "Anglo" I should mention that my father's side of the family has been in British North America essentially since it was first colonized. His folk originally came from New England, where my aunt traced an ancestress who was hanged as a witch before the Salem trials (but survived and lived another 20 years) ... Half-Hanged Mary. 

[derspiess]

Our kid never slept in our room at all, so I avoided this. 

We moved Tommy to his own room as soon as my in-laws vacated it (he was about 1 to 1.5 months old).  He definitely likes having his own space to sleep now.  If he's not feeling well & we try to get him to sleep in our bed, he throws a fit

[grumbler]

I'm waiting for grumbler to arrive in order to demolish the logical inconsistencies in Carl's argument.  

I didn't even have to "wait" for you to demonstrate that you don't "get" Kohlberg's ideas, nor my understanding of them. 

Carl was showing exactly what Kohlberg predicted:  his first-stage moral reasoning didn't resolve his moral problem, so he is advancing towards stage 2.  Good for him, and interesting that malthus caught that.