Kohlberg in Action!

[derspiess]

... thus ensuring he will be unhappy, permanently. Or at least, that's how I see it.

Kids need discipline: as they grow up, it is the only guide they have to classify behaviour as good or bad.

What I think (again personal opinion) is that many believe discipline must be harsh in order to be effective. I don't think this is the case - what it has to be is credible, teaching the kid that bad behaviour has consequences, and reliable & consistent.

A kid will not listen if you merely *tell* him not to do something.

The way things typically go with my nephew is that he will act up until someone finally puts their foot down, then he cries & said person (unless it's me) is way too quick to console/placate him.  So he cries a lot.  We were all on a mini-vacation last week-- I lost count of the number of times he cried over stupid things.

He's not so much a hell-raiser, per se, but he has a lot of bad habits.  I'm pretty convinced that the main reason he acts so infantile is his mom-- she seems to want to keep him (and his sister) a baby as long as possible.  So at over 2.5 years old, he still has a pacifier (which is affecting his speech and his teeth), still wears diapers (sister in law always seems to want to potty train him 'next month') and is constantly yelling for his mommy to do this or that for him. 

I love the kid to death, but he needs to start maturing.

[Malthus]

Says who?

North American ashkenazi jews are funny. You guys let the black hats tell you what you are and what you aren't. You need to live in israel for a while and learn to be free. According to our enemies, and according to the State of Israel, your kid is jewish. You should teach him that, regardless, so he doesn't get surprissed when the wolves come knocking on the door.

I thought you worked in Eretz for a while, didn't you? How come you don't know that your kid is jewish?

Ethnically, he's not born "Jewish", but whether he sympathizes with his Jewish heritage or not is really going to be up to him; as will what religion, if any, he chooses to adopt.

[The Brain]

Says who?

North American ashkenazi jews are funny. You guys let the black hats tell you what you are and what you aren't. You need to live in israel for a while and learn to be free. According to our enemies, and according to the State of Israel, your kid is jewish. You should teach him that, regardless, so he doesn't get surprissed when the wolves come knocking on the door.

I thought you worked in Eretz for a while, didn't you? How come you don't know that your kid is jewish?

Ethnically, he's not born "Jewish", but whether he sympathizes with his Jewish heritage or not is really going to be up to him; as will what religion, if any, he chooses to adopt.

...as long as it's Mysticism.

[dps]

One disciplinary tool I have found effective when time-outs are not enough is to remove the kid when he's being disruptive. For example, at a family party Carl was acting up & causing a disturbance - running around screaming. We timed him out but he did not stop (I could hardly blame him, as other kids were running screaming - his cousins - & their parents did not discipline them). So we told Carl 'if you don't stop we will leave". He didn't stop so we left (much to the surprise of the rest of the family I might add).

Next time, he was at a family party & running around screaming; we again told him that of he didn't behave we would leave, and this scared him into obedience since he knew we were not kidding.

This will work until he figures out that misbehaving will get him out of events that he doesn't want to attend. 

[Siege]

Says who?

North American ashkenazi jews are funny. You guys let the black hats tell you what you are and what you aren't. You need to live in israel for a while and learn to be free. According to our enemies, and according to the State of Israel, your kid is jewish. You should teach him that, regardless, so he doesn't get surprissed when the wolves come knocking on the door.

I thought you worked in Eretz for a while, didn't you? How come you don't know that your kid is jewish?

His kid is only 1/4 Jewish.

I thought Malthus parents were both jewish?

Anyway, Medinat Yisrael (The State), recognizes as jewish anyone with one (1) jewish grandparent, on either the father or the mother's line.

[Malthus]

Says who?

North American ashkenazi jews are funny. You guys let the black hats tell you what you are and what you aren't. You need to live in israel for a while and learn to be free. According to our enemies, and according to the State of Israel, your kid is jewish. You should teach him that, regardless, so he doesn't get surprissed when the wolves come knocking on the door.

I thought you worked in Eretz for a while, didn't you? How come you don't know that your kid is jewish?

His kid is only 1/4 Jewish.

Depends on how you measure these things. Accoeding to our wierd Ashkenazi ways, ethnicity is matrilinial in the same way that one's last name is patrilinial; I get my father's last name and my mother's ethnicity. I am not half-[last name] and I am not half-Jewish; similarly, my kid has my last name, but not my ethnicity.

That says nothing about what parts of his heritage he will choose to sympathize with.

[Malthus]

...as long as it's Mysticism.

Wrong. You can't dictate that someone adopt mysticism, since that is something you must experience (or not). Chance, and his own atributes and experiences, will determine whether he's into mysticism.

[Siege]

...as long as it's Mysticism.

Wrong. You can't dictate that someone adopt mysticism, since that is something you must experience (or not). Chance, and his own atributes and experiences, will determine whether he's into mysticism.

And whatever you teach him.

[Malthus]

I thought Malthus parents were both jewish?

Anyway, Medinat Yisrael (The State), recognizes as jewish anyone with one (1) jewish grandparent, on either the father or the mother's line.

Nope, my dad is most definitely not Jewish.

The definition of "Jew" used by the state of Israel is sort of irrelevant - that pre-supposes one *wishes* to be thought a Jew. For Carl, that is not certain - it will be up to him to choose.

[The Brain]

...as long as it's Mysticism.

You can't dictate that someone adopt mysticism

Worst religion ever.

[Malthus]

And whatever you teach him.

You can teach all you want, but you cannot dictate experience.

Not everyone is suited to mysticism, and much of what is claimed as "mystic" is bullshit or charlitanism (I know many will interject with "all", but I disagree  ). IMO, the best thing to teach is a skeptical attitute, and offer a good education in the basics of religious belief. 

[Siege]

...as long as it's Mysticism.

You can't dictate that someone adopt mysticism

Worst religion ever.

Easy to research, though.

[Malthus]

Worst religion ever.

True, as a religion it sucks. 

[Legbiter]

... thus ensuring he will be unhappy, permanently. Or at least, that's how I see it.

I agree, incidentally, but I see you've got the requisite "if you don't raise your kid like I do, you' re worse than Hitler" routine down pat. 

And I should know, I remember this conversation I had with my friend about the values of something called "co-sleeping" (my friend's way) vs. my way*, which consisted of moving my first son into a separate room next to our bedroom after his first birthday. Which took some tough love to implement at first, but I was (silently) mortified by his (in my view then) mollycoddling, heretical ways, and we kept politely raising each other's bloodpressure talking about the various pros and cons, until I realized that we were both speaking in sharp clipped sentences to each other, and that I was being a dick.     

The running joke between us for the next few months consisted of mock insults about parenting skills and speculation on the various ways in which our boys would enlist our help in the cruel fight with strict Mommy.


* The One True Path To Parental Salvation, btw.     

[Valmy]

You can teach all you want, but you cannot dictate experience.

One of the biggest problems with Biblical religions is you pretty much have to study them to understand at all why people regard them so highly.  Just sitting around talking about them it sounds pretty silly ('sooo...there is this God who really hates Egpytians...')