The meaning of "Christmas"

[MadImmortalMan]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays are more or less used interchangeably. I don't overthink it.

[Valmy]

My brother's weirdo ex-wife celebrated Hanukkah and decorated for it, even though she was a Christian fundie.  Her rationale was that Christianity was formed out of Judaism, so we should honor the old Jewish traditions as well.  Funny thing is that she never bothered to celebrate the other unique Jewish holidays and Hanukkah is a very minor one in Judaism (inspite of the "me too"-ism on the part of American Jews).

Yeah if you are going to celebrate Jew Holidays you need to celebrate Purim, that is the best one.

[derspiess]

Well yeah nothing wrong with that.  What is nutty is getting upset when people say 'Happy Holidays' and insisting you say 'Merry Christmas'.

I don't insist someone wish me a Merry Christmas-- I just think "Happy Holidays" is meaningless to the point of being annoying.

[Valmy]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays are more or less used interchangeably. I don't overthink it.

Well yeah you are not a religious wacko.

I remember when the Obama administration announced that because of the ruling by several Federal Courts that article 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act was unconstitutional, the Feds would no longer attempt to challenge challenges to it in court.  This seemingly boring bit about allocation of Judicial resources was taken, by the nutters in Texas, to mean Obama was no longer enforcing the laws and giving all power to teh Gays in an attempt to destroy Christian values, subvert the Constitution, and violated his oath of office.  I mean there is nothing that those people will not take as persecution.  So of course they rebel against the Nero-esque use of 'Happy Holidays'.

[Valmy]

I don't insist someone wish me a Merry Christmas-- I just think "Happy Holidays" is meaningless to the point of being annoying.

I always just thought it referred to the Holiday Season, you know Thanksgiving through New Years (though some are saying it is Halloween through Valentine's...that is fine to).  I think it was actually invented as a way for department stores to cover their Jew and Christian bases.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Because to them, it's another season altogether.

I hate how in the last 100 years it's become necessary to celebrate Christmas this time of year whether you are actually celebrating Christmas or not. I don't like the crass, commercialization of the secular Christmas traditions in the US. I am not Christian, so the whole nativity bit is lost to me. At the end of the day, the only things that I like about this time of year have to do with the historical aspects (green and red decor, singing carols (Christmas as well as Winter Wonderland-type), lights, celebrating winter) rather than anything to do with "Christmas", per se. And it really annoys the hell out of me that because I happen to live in the US, I'm somehow supposed to bow to that pressure since, well, it's the Christmas season!

I'm respectful of others - I haven't said a word to anyone who's been kind enough to give me a Christmas card or small bits of candy at the office other than a very cheerful, "Thank you!" But please don't push that holiday off on me.

Every society is going to have certain cultural traditions. I don't really see much value in rebelling against that, especially not for a middle aged adult.

[The Brain]

Today, I got into a discussion about the use of the term "Christmas". I mentioned to a couple of friends that I don't celebrate Christmas, but I do celebrate the holiday season. One of them took great offense at that, saying that if I celebrate the holiday season I obviously celebrate Christmas. My problem with that is that I do not celebrate the birth of Christ, which is the whole point of Christmas. So, I kind of feel like it's disinenguous to say that I celebrate Christmas. He said that the whole holiday is Christmas, not just the religious aspect, so I'm wrong in saying that I don't celebrate the holiday.

What says Languish on the subject?

In my country we celebrate jul. Kristusmäss is unheard of.

[merithyn]

Because to them, it's another season altogether.

I hate how in the last 100 years it's become necessary to celebrate Christmas this time of year whether you are actually celebrating Christmas or not. I don't like the crass, commercialization of the secular Christmas traditions in the US. I am not Christian, so the whole nativity bit is lost to me. At the end of the day, the only things that I like about this time of year have to do with the historical aspects (green and red decor, singing carols (Christmas as well as Winter Wonderland-type), lights, celebrating winter) rather than anything to do with "Christmas", per se. And it really annoys the hell out of me that because I happen to live in the US, I'm somehow supposed to bow to that pressure since, well, it's the Christmas season!

I'm respectful of others - I haven't said a word to anyone who's been kind enough to give me a Christmas card or small bits of candy at the office other than a very cheerful, "Thank you!" But please don't push that holiday off on me.

Every society is going to have certain cultural traditions. I don't really see much value in rebelling against that, especially not for a middle aged adult.

Because cultural traditions should not be forced on anyone, but especially a religious-based tradition in a multi-religious society.

[Valmy]

Where did Otto say anything about forcing traditions on people? 

[Caliga]

Yeah if you are going to celebrate Jew Holidays you need to celebrate Purim, that is the best one.

Dude, Passover seder

[crazy canuck]

But that is the point Cal, even you as a non Christian living in an area which is dominated by Christians buy cards of a religious nature because that is the cultural norm in your area.  Compare that to the kinds of cards that fly around these parts - almost all say Seasons Greetings etc.

That goes to Meri's point of people becoming offended if she chooses to go outside the cultural norm in her area which is defined by its Christianity.

The only point I'm trying to make (and probably not very clearly) is that I don't think it's correct to assume that just because a particular region has individuals of mostly Christian background means that region is also deeply religious.  Obviously both Vancouver and Kentucky are poor examples for this... but what about say Denmark?

I dont understand what you are saying Cal.  If most everyone around you is Chrisitian then by definition are you not in an area of high religiousity (to remove the "deeply" adjective which seems to have caused the difficulty).

[crazy canuck]

Where did Otto say anything about forcing traditions on people? 

When he suggested it was immature to do otherwise 

Otto gets the seasonal cultural blinders award.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Where did Otto say anything about forcing traditions on people? 

Yeah, what I'm responding to is this specifically:

And it really annoys the hell out of me that because I happen to live in the US, I'm somehow supposed to bow to that pressure since, well, it's the Christmas season!

That's what I find ridiculous. I'm not saying you need to go to Church for the Christmas season, put up a nativity scene, convert to Christianity or any of that. But maybe someone a bit more provincial than me has never really experienced a lot of different cultures doesn't understand how to go with the flow, having lived overseas quite a bit growing up I have taken part in lots of cultural activities and festivals that are not practiced here in America. The saying "when in Rome..." is just common sense. I'm not saying you need to decorate, need to put up a tree, need to even exchange gifts or do anything to even recognize Christmas. I'm just saying it's a little unreasonable to be annoyed at a cultural tradition. Would you prefer there were no cultural traditions at all?

[OttoVonBismarck]

But that is the point Cal, even you as a non Christian living in an area which is dominated by Christians buy cards of a religious nature because that is the cultural norm in your area.  Compare that to the kinds of cards that fly around these parts - almost all say Seasons Greetings etc.

That goes to Meri's point of people becoming offended if she chooses to go outside the cultural norm in her area which is defined by its Christianity.

The only point I'm trying to make (and probably not very clearly) is that I don't think it's correct to assume that just because a particular region has individuals of mostly Christian background means that region is also deeply religious.  Obviously both Vancouver and Kentucky are poor examples for this... but what about say Denmark?

I dont understand what you are saying Cal.  If most everyone around you is Chrisitian then by definition are you not in an area of high religiousity (to remove the "deeply" adjective which seems to have caused the difficulty).

You're honestly horrible to discuss anything with. There are tons of countries in Europe for example with high majority officially Christian populations. Most social scientists will differentiate between areas like that, and say, the U.S. bible belt by looking at "annual church visits" and etc. A place that is 80% "Christian" but where 90% of the people attend Church once a year isn't really that religious.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Where did Otto say anything about forcing traditions on people? 

When he suggested it was immature to do otherwise 

Otto gets the seasonal cultural blinders award.

What I'm suggesting is someone get over themselves if their complaint is "I find it annoying that in America it feels like I am being pressured to participate in the cultural traditions." Especially when it's just mild social pressure. Like I said, every culture has traditions, and when it's not anything harmful I see no reason why someone can't just make peace with that, even if they aren't a fan of that particular tradition.