Elementary school shooting gun control pissing contest

[11B4V]

I'm going to guess the guy is also a racist.  It's unclear if he's using "assault" in a legal sense or not.

He is attempting to say an Assault Rifle or Assault Weapon is not a type of firearm. By his logic there would be Assault Muzzleloader, Assault Bluderbuss, Assault etc. The bolded above is/are a type/classification of a weapon. Another example would by Submachine Gun, Battle Rifle...etc. 

[Razgovory]

I'm going to guess the guy is also a racist.  It's unclear if he's using "assault" in a legal sense or not.

He is attempting to say an Assault Rifle or Assault Weapon is not a type of firearm. By his logic there would be Assault Muzzleloader, Assault Bluderbuss, Assault etc. The bolded above is/are a type/classification of a weapon. Another example would by Submachine Gun, Battle Rifle...etc.

I was under the impression that "Assault rifle" described a type of firearm rather then what it actually being used for.  For instance and AK-47 is an assault rifle.  If you club someone with it, it doesn't become a "bludgeoning rifle".  In fact, I thought the term actually came from German, to describe a certain type of late war small arm.  The Germans liked the word "Sturm" which is translated into English as "assault" and "storm".  So they had "Storm Troopers" and "Assault Artillery" and the like.

[11B4V]

I'm going to guess the guy is also a racist.  It's unclear if he's using "assault" in a legal sense or not.

He is attempting to say an Assault Rifle or Assault Weapon is not a type of firearm. By his logic there would be Assault Muzzleloader, Assault Bluderbuss, Assault etc. The bolded above is/are a type/classification of a weapon. Another example would by Submachine Gun, Battle Rifle...etc.

I was under the impression that "Assault rifle" described a type of firearm rather then what it actually being used for.  For instance and AK-47 is an assault rifle.  If you club someone with it, it doesn't become a "bludgeoning rifle".  In fact, I thought the term actually came from German, to describe a certain type of late war small arm.  The Germans liked the word "Sturm" which is translated into English as "assault" and "storm". 

Yes, it's a classification.

German StG 44 or Sturmgewehr 44 is considered the first assault rifle. Fired the 7.92x33mm.


Generally;
Assault Rifle fires a intermediate-power cartridge. i.e M16, AK-47, AK74,  StG 44,

Battle Rifle fires a full power rifle cartridge. i.e Ljungman Rifle Ag m/42, G43, M14, G3, M1 Garand, SVT-40

Submachine gun fires a pistol cartridge. MP 40, MP 5, Thompson

[11B4V]

Left is the 7.92x57 or 8x57js

Right is the 7.92x33 or 7.92mm Kurz

[11B4V]

  My excuse to hunt Africa. Though it is left handed, easy enough to shoot right handed.

This my friends is a Sako AV Bolt Action Rifle. Chambered for one of the oldest commercial belted magnum cartridges that was originally loaded with cordite. Introduced in 1912 as the .375 Belted Rimless Nitro-Express or better known today as the .375 Holland & Holland. It is still cambered today by all major rifle manufactures. 

From this cartridge case, came the famous Weatherby Cartridges, and a slew of other modern day belted magnums and wildcats.

[Syt]

My excuse to hunt Africa.

I think they prefer being called "black".

[11B4V]

My excuse to hunt Africa.

I think they prefer being called "black".

Now, now lets not be testy.

[Razgovory]

I'm going to guess the guy is also a racist.  It's unclear if he's using "assault" in a legal sense or not.

He is attempting to say an Assault Rifle or Assault Weapon is not a type of firearm. By his logic there would be Assault Muzzleloader, Assault Bluderbuss, Assault etc. The bolded above is/are a type/classification of a weapon. Another example would by Submachine Gun, Battle Rifle...etc.

I was under the impression that "Assault rifle" described a type of firearm rather then what it actually being used for.  For instance and AK-47 is an assault rifle.  If you club someone with it, it doesn't become a "bludgeoning rifle".  In fact, I thought the term actually came from German, to describe a certain type of late war small arm.  The Germans liked the word "Sturm" which is translated into English as "assault" and "storm". 

Yes, it's a classification.

German StG 44 or Sturmgewehr 44 is considered the first assault rifle. Fired the 7.92x33mm.


Generally;
Assault Rifle fires a intermediate-power cartridge. i.e M16, AK-47, AK74,  StG 44,

Battle Rifle fires a full power rifle cartridge. i.e Ljungman Rifle Ag m/42, G43, M14, G3, M1 Garand, SVT-40

Submachine gun fires a pistol cartridge. MP 40, MP 5, Thompson

That's what I thought.  Years of wargaming have given me a decent knowledge of German wartime weaponry.

[CountDeMoney]

BAN ASSAULT SPENCER RIFLES

[OttoVonBismarck]

You can't legally buy weapons that fire full automatic.  Like a Uzi, you hold the trigger down and the magazine empties out. 

These are semi-automatics, which means each time you pull the trigger one bullet comes out.  Like most handguns.

My understanding is the US military decided to do away with full auto on its latest iteration of the M-16.  Now you can switch it between semi auto and three round burst mode.

I also understand it's relatively easy to make a slight modification to a legal semi auto rifle to enable it to fire full auto.

The move to three round burst happened in the 80s, actually. M16A2 models started rolling out in the 80s and by the mid-90s had replaced most older stuff. Some models of the M16A2 still retained full automatic as one of its select fire modes, but the overwhelming majority of those distributed to the military removed full automatic in favor of three round burst. They have mostly tried to replace M16A2s with either M4 variants where appropriate or M16A4 when they still want a full sized rifle. Like the A2, some A4 models have full automatic mode but the ones sold and distributed to the U.S. military generally do not.

The modern M4 variants have both full automatic models and three round burst models. Probably the most widely used M4 variant I would guess would be the M4A1, which is fully automatic. So a lot of soldiers today would have that instead of a three round burst model. I think the Navy may use the M4E2 which is three round burst.

I remember hearing awhile back the Army wanted to replace almost all original M4s and M16 variants with the M4A1, so at that point we'd be back to mostly fully automatic. Then I think there is some dream of a whole new rifle in a few years but that's the kind of thing they talk about all the time.

And yes, full automatic was studied in Vietnam and they decided untrained soldiers basically blow their load and waste serious amounts of ammunition. So that was the primary reasoning behind going to three round burst, as studies showed it gave most of the real benefits of fully automatic fire in an infantry rifle while giving superior real world performance in terms of accuracy and etc.

I don't know the reason the fully automatic variant of the M4 is the most popular with the military these days. I'd guess maybe they feel better training than draftees got in Nam allows modern soldiers to put it to good use. The reason they are preferring M4 to the full size rifle is they say within 300 yards the rifles have very similar performance and most firefights in the new century have involved distances under 100 yards, as well as urban operations fighting through buildings etc where the shorter weapon is much more maneuverable.

[OttoVonBismarck]

My thoughts on spree shootings are fully automatic weapons would result probably in fewer deaths than the semiautomatic ones the shooters actually use.

Reasons:

1. These tools are almost always untrained shooters.
2. Submachine guns and fully automatic rifles exhaust even the largest made magazines very, very quickly. An Uzi will empty a 50 round magazine in 5 seconds.
3. Most spree shootings people are not extremely tightly grouped, so a fool holding his trigger down until the magazine is empty might waste an entire magazine shooting at one person or only a few persons. They would probably run out of ammunition before they killed nearly as many as they could have with a semiautomatic.

For example Adam Lanza, deliberately and methodically shot each child multiple times to insure they died. With a fully automatic weapon, in untrained hands, he'd probably spray the room which would actually leave many students unfazed and depending on how stupid he was he might not have brought enough ammunition to actually execute every kid in the classroom if he was just madly spraying bullets.

But who knows, if someone knows what they're doing with an automatic weapon it'd be bad.

[derspiess]

The reason they are preferring M4 to the full size rifle is they say within 300 yards the rifles have very similar performance and most firefights in the new century have involved distances under 100 yards, as well as urban operations fighting through buildings etc where the shorter weapon is much more maneuverable.

Also the slight weight difference.  Apparently some guys obsess over minimizing weight on their weapons.

Personally, I'd take an old school M16A2 any day.  Or maybe an A3 with an Aimpoint

[derspiess]

My thoughts on spree shootings are fully automatic weapons would result probably in fewer deaths than the semiautomatic ones the shooters actually use.

You're probably right.  Full auto would definitely be scarier, though.

But who knows, if someone knows what they're doing with an automatic weapon it'd be bad.

They're so flippin' expensive, it would practically have to be a rich dude.  And rich guys don't seem to be prone to that.  Come to think of it, I don't know if I've ever heard of a legal class 3 weapon being used in a crime.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Note that you do not need a Class 3 NFA license to have a legal Title II weapon. Class 3 NFA license is what you need to legally be a dealer in Title II weapons (Class 2 is for manufacturers and Class 1 is for importers.) You have to get approval and a stamp to receive a Title II weapon as an individual.

Under that regime, no weapon legally transferred to an individual under those regulations has ever been used in a crime.

I believe two legal Title II weapons have been used in crimes. But both were used by renegade cops who had access to them legally, but through a different means than the NFA transfer process.

There have also been a small handful of crimes committed with illegally owned firearms (usually poor quality submachine guns or machine pistols smuggled into the country.)

[derspiess]

Here's a summary of Feinstein's wish list, er, bill:  http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

In January, Senator Feinstein will introduce a bill to stop the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition feeding devises.

Heh.