Toronto woman denied haircut files human rights complaint

[The Brain]

There's no need to make special legal accommodation for religions. Government out of the temple, plz.

[Malthus]

though who would want a haircut from someone forced to provide it? 

Who would want to go to a place where they are forced to serve you?
I mean, if you own a restaurant, in Canada or the USA, you can't refuse blacks, women, or jews if you feel like it.

Haircutting is slightly different from just buying stuff. 

In any event, there is a functional reason why men's and women's haircutting is usually seperate having nothing whatever to do with religious taboos - that being that men and women tend, in general, to prefer different styles and procedures.

Given that the two are in fact widely seperated (though of course there also exist "unisex" salons), it simply doesn't appear to be as huge human rights issue that some Muslim dudes did not want to cut this chick's hair. As a matter of principle, sure, they should not turn women away. But the barber shop I go to (with a non-Muslim barber) has never, far as I know, had a woman want to have her hair cut there (though no doubt they would serve one who wanted a man's cut). Given that background seems a trivial non-issue.

This is different from restaurants, etc. A woman, Jew or Black may want to eat at one, and there is no real functional reason (well, aside from that kosher thing) to keep 'em seperate.

[mongers]

though who would want a haircut from someone forced to provide it? 

Who would want to go to a place where they are forced to serve you?
I mean, if you own a restaurant, in Canada or the USA, you can't refuse blacks, women, or jews if you feel like it.

Haircutting is slightly different from just buying stuff. 

In any event, there is a functional reason why men's and women's haircutting is usually seperate having nothing whatever to do with religious taboos - that being that men and women tend, in general, to prefer different styles and procedures.

Given that the two are in fact widely seperated (though of course there also exist "unisex" salons), it simply doesn't appear to be as huge human rights issue that some Muslim dudes did not want to cut this chick's hair. As a matter of principle, sure, they should not turn women away. But the barber shop I go to (with a non-Muslim barber) has never, far as I know, had a woman want to have her hair cut there (though no doubt they would serve one who wanted a man's cut). Given that background seems a trivial non-issue.

This is different from restaurants, etc. A woman, Jew or Black may want to eat at one, and there is no real functional reason (well, aside from that kosher thing) to keep 'em seperate.

Yes.

And I'm presuming a kosher restaurant (I guess these things exist) wouldn't be that bothered about serving non-Jewish customers.

edit:
This case is more analogous to demanding a Rabbi performs a circumcision on yourself, rather than some 1950s era bar/dinner not serving blacks.

I think there are sound practical and religious reasons for him not wanting to do so, rather than him demanding special exemption for his religion over other peoples 'rights'.

[Barrister]

My barber shop (which is actually Neil's barber shop - he gave me the name of the place) theoretically will serve female customers.  There is a price for female hair cuts on the wall.  But in the dozen or more times I've been I've never, ever seen a woman get her hair cut there.

That's why I think I'm a lot more comfortable with a muslim barber not wanting to cut a woman's hair, then I would be a muslim restaurant not wanting to serve food to women.  As a matter of reality hair cutting is very segregated between the sexes.

[Malthus]

Yes.

And I'm presuming a kosher restaurant (I guess these things exist) wouldn't be that bothered about serving non-Jewish customers.

Certainly they exist. Kosher delis are a big thing in Toronto and Montreal - and of course New York. Needless to say, they don't give a damn if their customers are Jews or not. 

The big problem with kosher delis is the sheer amount of food that tends to be dispensed at one sitting. Who can eat a sandwich as big as their head?

[mongers]

Yes.

And I'm presuming a kosher restaurant (I guess these things exist) wouldn't be that bothered about serving non-Jewish customers.

Certainly they exist. Kosher delis are a big thing in Toronto and Montreal - and of course New York. Needless to say, they don't give a damn if their customers are Jews or not. 

The big problem with kosher delis is the sheer amount of food that tends to be dispensed at one sitting. Who can eat a sandwich as big as their head?

Oh I get the Deli meme, but that I've never seen a restaurant that's prominently gone on about it being Jewish/serving only jewish cuisine.

[The Brain]

What about a pig who refuses to eat Jews?

[crazy canuck]

it simply doesn't appear to be as huge human rights issue that some Muslim dudes did not want to cut this chick's hair.

I think you are slicing it a bit thin there.  Discrimination is prohibited in relation to any service offered to the public.

Its why BB's work around is effective.  The service is not provided to the public but only to members.  Now the difficulty BB's Taliaban R US Club will run into is if they discriminate regarding who can be a member but at least they will be on stronger ground of they make it a religious club of some sort that has a particular fetish for cutting hair.

[Barrister]

Yes.

And I'm presuming a kosher restaurant (I guess these things exist) wouldn't be that bothered about serving non-Jewish customers.

Certainly they exist. Kosher delis are a big thing in Toronto and Montreal - and of course New York. Needless to say, they don't give a damn if their customers are Jews or not. 

The big problem with kosher delis is the sheer amount of food that tends to be dispensed at one sitting. Who can eat a sandwich as big as their head?

Oh I get the Deli meme, but that I've never seen a restaurant that's prominently gone on about it being Jewish/serving only jewish cuisine.

Marti took a group of us to a Jewish-themed restaurant in Krakow (not sure if owners were actually Jewish).  My wife and I went to a Jewish-themed restaurant in Venice as well in the old Jewish quarter of the city.  Both served exclusively "jewish" type food, though I don't know if they kept strict kosher or not.

Of course in those locations they're aiming more for the tourist crowd.

[Malthus]

Oh I get the Deli meme, but that I've never seen a restaurant that's prominently gone on about it being Jewish/serving only jewish cuisine.

It's often a selling point in North America. "Schwartz's Hebrew Delicatessen".

http://www.schwartzsdeli.com/

[The Brain]

So they won't sell to Shebrews?

[Malthus]

it simply doesn't appear to be as huge human rights issue that some Muslim dudes did not want to cut this chick's hair.

I think you are slicing it a bit thin there.  Discrimination is prohibited in relation to any service provided to the public.

Meh, sure it's a violation. My point is that, given that the industry is in practice widely segregated by sex for purely functional reasons, it doesn't appear to be much of a violation.

[crazy canuck]

Oh I get the Deli meme, but that I've never seen a restaurant that's prominently gone on about it being Jewish/serving only jewish cuisine.

It's often a selling point in North America. "Schwartz's Hebrew Delicatessen".

http://www.schwartzsdeli.com/

Yeah, no kidding.  Why would anyone waste time going to a non Jewish Deli? 

[crazy canuck]

it simply doesn't appear to be as huge human rights issue that some Muslim dudes did not want to cut this chick's hair.

I think you are slicing it a bit thin there.  Discrimination is prohibited in relation to any service provided to the public.

Meh, sure it's a violation. My point is that, given that the industry is in practice widely segregated by sex for purely functional reasons, it doesn't appear to be much of a violation.

Your "functional" reason does not apply in this case.  She has short hair.  Why shouldnt she have access to a cheap haircut?  Especially since the reason for denying her is in no way functional but simply that they dont want to serve any females.

[The Brain]

In Sweden you cut your hair at a unisex place unless you're a weird old dude.