Toronto woman denied haircut files human rights complaint

[viper37]

Ontario's haircut laws in question]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/11/15/toronto-haircut-mcgregor.html]Ontario's haircut laws in question

Clearly, the Muslims are in their right.  Granting rights to any group that would violate the rights of another?  Crime against humanity, no less.

And they say we have silly issues.

[mongers]

Ontario's haircut laws in question]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/11/15/toronto-haircut-mcgregor.html]Ontario's haircut laws in question

Clearly, the Muslims are in their right.  Granting rights to any group that would violate the rights of another?  Crime against humanity, no less.

And they say we have silly issues.

Viper can you clarify your position.

From my viewpoint the barbers are within their 'rights' to refuse trade/custom.

[derspiess]

She looks very much like a man, so she could've probably gotten away with it if she weren't trying to become a victim.

[viper37]

Viper can you clarify your position.

From my viewpoint the barbers are within their 'rights' to refuse trade/custom.

That was irony.  Usually, by our canadian friends, denying something to an immigrant is akin to be a nazi.

If the men's religion forbid him to cut a Jew or a "nigger's" hair, everyone would say he is racist.  If a white barber said his religion forbids him to cut a Muslim men's hair, he would be called a racist.

There should be no discrimination.  If the woman wants a haircut there, she should get it.  Human rights is a *tad* overblown, but it is a case of accomodation that we shouldn't make for some crazy insane religious practice.  If a muslim rights is attacked because he attends schools with girls, do we accomodate him too?

If it was a white man refusing to cut hair of a white woman, would we let him choose his clientele as he wish?  If a bar said it was forbidden to women, would we let the issue sit?  No, of course not.

[Admiral Yi]

I think he's got you Mongers.

[Malthus]

Meh, I'm cool with there being male "barber shops" and female "hair salons". Maybe just because I'm used to that. OTOH, if the courts forced barbers to cut women's hair if they demanded it, I'd lose no sleep over that ... though who would want a haircut from someone forced to provide it? 

Seems a petty sort of hill to die (or dye) on. 

[Barrister]

Viper can you clarify your position.

From my viewpoint the barbers are within their 'rights' to refuse trade/custom.

That was irony.  Usually, by our canadian friends, denying something to an immigrant is akin to be a nazi.

If the men's religion forbid him to cut a Jew or a "nigger's" hair, everyone would say he is racist.  If a white barber said his religion forbids him to cut a Muslim men's hair, he would be called a racist.

There should be no discrimination.  If the woman wants a haircut there, she should get it.  Human rights is a *tad* overblown, but it is a case of accomodation that we shouldn't make for some crazy insane religious practice.  If a muslim rights is attacked because he attends schools with girls, do we accomodate him too?

If it was a white man refusing to cut hair of a white woman, would we let him choose his clientele as he wish?  If a bar said it was forbidden to women, would we let the issue sit?  No, of course not.

Except you can't just invent a religious practice.  There is no religion which prohibits cutting the hair of a Jew that I am aware of.  But I'm pretty sure that islam does prohibit a man from cutting women's hair.

By the way - these guys could always convert their barber shop to a "private club" and then prohibit membership on any basis they feel like.  That's how women's only health clubs operate.

[mongers]

Meh, I'm cool with there being male "barber shops" and female "hair salons". Maybe just because I'm used to that. OTOH, if the courts forced barbers to cut women's hair if they demanded it, I'd lose no sleep over that ... though who would want a haircut from someone forced to provide it? 

Seems a petty sort of hill to die (or dye) on. 

A well considered post.

[mongers]

I think he's got you Mongers.

You 'think' poorly.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Viper can you clarify your position.

From my viewpoint the barbers are within their 'rights' to refuse trade/custom.

That was irony.  Usually, by our canadian friends, denying something to an immigrant is akin to be a nazi.

If the men's religion forbid him to cut a Jew or a "nigger's" hair, everyone would say he is racist.  If a white barber said his religion forbids him to cut a Muslim men's hair, he would be called a racist.

There should be no discrimination.  If the woman wants a haircut there, she should get it.  Human rights is a *tad* overblown, but it is a case of accomodation that we shouldn't make for some crazy insane religious practice.  If a muslim rights is attacked because he attends schools with girls, do we accomodate him too?

If it was a white man refusing to cut hair of a white woman, would we let him choose his clientele as he wish?  If a bar said it was forbidden to women, would we let the issue sit?  No, of course not.

Except you can't just invent a religious practice.

sure you can

[PDH]

But I'm pretty sure that islam does prohibit a man from cutting women's hair.

Women's hair is pretty sexy - just touching it can lead to rape.  Just ask an Egyptian.

[The Brain]

I often walk into female staffed hair salons and demand they cut my hair down there.

[viper37]

Except you can't just invent a religious practice.

Of course you can.  Jeovah's Witnesses and Mormons, although base on christianity, are religions which exists from very recently in mankind's history (for JW, 1870).  Yet, they have practices wich differ a lot from other Christians, and they want accomodations for it.
Accomodations wich may contradict a doctor's oath in some case.

Talebans have a very strict interpretation of the Coran wich is not really based on historical grounds as historically muslim societies were probably more liberal than they are today, in respect to the western civilization.  They believe a girl's place is at home, not a school.  How do we respect their religious values when they immigrate to Canada?  Each provinces have laws about mandatory school.  Were do you trace the line if you accept discrimination in some issues but not others?

But I'm pretty sure that islam does prohibit a man from cutting women's hair.

Who cares?  Are canadian woman forced to have their hair cut by another woman in all cases?

By the way - these guys could always convert their barber shop to a "private club" and then prohibit membership on any basis they feel like.  That's how women's only health clubs operate.

They could.  They would need to charge a monthly or annual fee too, I think, and they would require of them to refuse all new customers who haven't subscribe to their club.

[viper37]

though who would want a haircut from someone forced to provide it? 

Who would want to go to a place where they are forced to serve you?
I mean, if you own a restaurant, in Canada or the USA, you can't refuse blacks, women, or jews if you feel like it.

[Barrister]

Viper - the JHs and Mormons faced decades of serious discrimination before they were somewhat recognized.  Taliban-style Islam is not recognized as legitimate in Canada.

You need to perhaps change it to "you can invent new religious practices, but it'll take decades or centuries before they're respected".

Yup.  $1 per year for membership in the Hallal Barber Shop.