The next Star Trek MMORPG: Another Epic Fail?

[Grey Fox]

Escort is a stupid name, indeed.

Damn, Berkut is on a roll today. Keep pointing out stuff we can all agree on.

[Barrister]

I dunno - the Defiant seems like a perfect example of what is being described.  Escort seems like as good a name for that role as any.

"Escort" actually has a distinct meaning when referring to warships, though, and Defiant does not match that description.

I seem to recall something from the series that the term "escort" was simply applied to the Defiant class as a sort of political ruse, to allow the fiction that Starfleet was not massively increasing its strength by the addition of these vessels (deliberately calling offensive ships by a defensive ship title).

That would not seem to be an issue in the MMO ST world, so calling them "destroyers" or "frigates" would seem a better choice than "escort."

Well I'd have no problem with them calling ships in that role a frigate or destroyer.  However if the Defiant was classed as an "escort" in the shows (no idea if it was or not) then that title would have the advantage of being true to Star Trek.  I can not recall (but could easily be proven wrong) any use of the terms frigate or destroyer, at least in reference to starfleet.

[Barrister]

No, it doesn't since its role is not to escort anything. This is, I realize, a very fine distinction, that a ship called an 'escort' ought to, in fact, escort things.

Now, if they created a combat system where there actually WAS a need for escorts for the cruiser or even capital ships, that would be pretty damn cool, in fact.

EVE has done a pretty decent job of creating a real space based combat system that is not based on a fantasy MMO paradigm. it can be done. The idea that it isn't possible is ludicrous, especially given that this is a known universse franchise, and that known universe does not include any examples of space combat that included ships healing one another, or "tanks".

It's role is to support capital ships.  It would probably do poorly on its own, however when it 'escorts' other ships it can be formidable.

As for being a known universe, despite all the computer and board games dedicated to space combat, combat between vessels is an extremely minor component of the television shows.  Even when such combat does take place it seems to revolve around typicaly gimmicky technobabble solutions (Enterprise lower's reliant's sheilds remotely, Enterprise modifies a solar probe to detect the cloaked Kliingon's exhaust), or it makes no effort at all to describe any strategy or technique, and is just a few shots of spaceships milling around and phasers filling the skies (almost any ship combat in DS9).  In order to take that known universe and turn it into meaningful and consistent space combat does require some additions to the canon.

Now I don't know a lot about how Eve does space combat.  So I'd love for Berkut to tell me what lessons could be learned from Eve.  I do recognize however that Eve is designed very differently and so some of what Eve does wouldn't work all that well in STO (#1 being the serious death denalties in Eve, and the general lack of them in STO).  Eve can get away with having an enormously powerful, but really expensive and rare ship for example, while that would be quite overpowering in STO.

[Berkut]

Well, EVE is actually a poor comparison - the combat in EVE is totally designed around PvP, with the PvE aspect simply an afterthought. The death penalty in EVE is not that harsh at all - it is just whatever your ship costs - this can be very little, depending on what you are flying around in.

This is probably a mostly pointless argument though - we don't really know enough yet. So far though, I have been pretty dissapointedthat it seems so derivative, and derivative of a mechanic that doesn't even make sense in the ST canon.

And I disagree that we don't really know much about how combat works in ST - we know plenty. Certainly enough to know that ships don't "heal" one another for example, or that particular ships are designed to "hold aggro" and get beat on while other ships dish out damage.

[grumbler]

Well I'd have no problem with them calling ships in that role a frigate or destroyer.  However if the Defiant was classed as an "escort" in the shows (no idea if it was or not) then that title would have the advantage of being true to Star Trek.  I can not recall (but could easily be proven wrong) any use of the terms frigate or destroyer, at least in reference to starfleet.

The series didn't use terms like "cruiser" or "battlecruiser" either.  Those (and frigate and the like) were added by the Technical Manual.

[katmai]

Berkie-

The mistake people have been making is trying to shoehorn the three ship classes into the trinity of mmos.

From what i've seen* it's not so much the case here. Between your starting traits for race, choosing your branch and ability to choose what starship skills to focus on, not to mention pick any of the three ship classes can effect what your ship will do.

The classes pretty much have same amount of weapon slots, main difference being science will have one more Science BO, Escort one more tactical, etc.. and cruisers have a little bit more hull hp's, it comes down to your skills and the skills of your BO's you've assigned.

Code Select Expand


Tier 2 (Lieutenant Commander)

    * Science (Nova/Aurora/Quasar)
          o Weapons
                + 2 Forward
                + 2 Rear
          o Modifications
                + 1 Tactical
                + 1 Engineering
                + 2 Science
          o Bridge Officers
                + 1 Tactical Ensign
                + 1 Engineering Ensign
                + 1 Science Ensign
                + 1 Science Lieutenant
          o Other
                + Crew: 100
                + Power bonus: +10 Aux
                + Hull Strength: 10000
                + Shield Strength: 3867
                + Inertia: 60
                + Turn rate: 11
                + Impulse modifier: .15

    *
    * Escort (Saber/Rapier/Ushaan)
          o Weapons
                + 3 Forward
                + 1 Rear
          o Modifications
                + 2 Tactical
                + 1 Engineering
                + 1 Science
          o Bridge Officers
                + 1 Tactical Lieutenant
                + 1 Tactical Ensign
                + 1 Engineering Ensign
                + 1 Science Ensign
          o Other
                + Crew: 50
                + Power bonus: +10 Weapons
                + Hull Strength: 11250
                + Shield Strength:
                + Inertia: 70
                + Turn rate: 16
                + Impulse modifier: .20

    * Cruiser (Constitution/Excalibur/Vesper)
          o Weapons
                + 2 Forward
                + 2 Rear
          o Modifications
                + 1 Tactical
                + 2 Engineering
                + 1 Science
          o Bridge Officers
                + 1 Tactical Ensign
                + 1 Engineering Lieutenant
                + 1 Engineering Ensign
                + 1 Science Ensign
          o Other
                + Crew: 400
                + Power bonus: +5 All Systems
                + Hull Strength: 16250
                + Shield Strength:
                + Inertia: 40
                + Turn rate: 8
                + Impulse modifier: .15


[Berkut]

Well I'd have no problem with them calling ships in that role a frigate or destroyer.  However if the Defiant was classed as an "escort" in the shows (no idea if it was or not) then that title would have the advantage of being true to Star Trek. 

If the Defiant was called an escort in order to conceal its true role in the show, then calling all ships with its true role (being a straight up combat ship that doesn't escort anything at all) would most certainly NOT be "true to Star Trek" at all.

You are arguing that since Spock said it would take three days to fix the Enterprise in ST2, then in fact it should always take three days to do so - even though Spock was lying!

Jesus, BB, quit being such an apologetic fanboix!

The Defiant was NOT an escort - which was the entire point of calling it an escort!

[katmai]

HOW DO I GET INTO OPEN BETA?!!!

They have said there will be keys for open beta besides pre-ordering, but limited supply. So i'd guess keep checking their forums to see about tie-ins from websites etc..

[DontSayBanana]

The series didn't use terms like "cruiser" or "battlecruiser" either.  Those (and frigate and the like) were added by the Technical Manual.

Not quite true.  The Enterprise was called a battlecruiser in Star Trek III.  Other than that and the Defiant, the only "classified" ship that pops to mind is the Centaur, classified as a frigate.

[katmai]

Katmai, time for the indepth preliminary report.

Well they are still adding tons of stuff between now and the open beta so everything I say must have big qualification that it could change.

I'm enjoying it, but as it stands now the missions are 90/10% go here, face x amount of y ships, beam down to planet and rescue/repair/investigate planet.
A few missions yet that have non-combat resolution.

There really isn't a crafting system per se, what they have is the ability to scan anomalies and collect artifacts, you then take the 4/5 different types of artifacts to Memory Alpha and exchange them for upgrades from Federation Scientists.

They are expecting to have the Bridges and genesis system for planets running this weekend.

And again remember I have only made it halfway through lvl 6 of 50 so higher lvl stuff is all unknown to me so far.

[Barrister]

Jesus, BB, quit being such an apologetic fanboix!

The Defiant was NOT an escort - which was the entire point of calling it an escort!

Do I come across as being an apologetic fanboi?  I've said numerous times the game might suck.

I also said I have no idea what the Defiant was called in DS9.  I don't remember any such thing about it being called an "escort" as part of some fabrication.  If anyone would care to fill me in on the details I'm all ears.

[Barrister]

So katmai, what are some of the abilities of science vessels (or science officers)?

Can they "heal" other vessels?

[Eddie Teach]

So what's the synopsis of this 34 page thread?

[Barrister]

So what's the synopsis of this 34 page thread?

There's a new MMO based on Star Trek coming out.

[Eddie Teach]

 

Has anybody here *played* it yet?