Would you let a US State cecede?

[mongers]

If we can get all the mormons to move to Utah then sure.

Wouldn't Utah be a little on the small size ? 

[Iormlund]

I wouldn't mind our separatist regions seceding as long as Spanish citizens that suddenly find themselves abroad were suitably compensated.

[11B4V]

No.

[lustindarkness]

Does the constitution cover secesion? 

[Habbaku]

Yes they have the right to secede.  But yes it has to be negotiated (in good faith) and can not be done unilaterally.

[Habbaku]

Yeah the history of secession is just full of peace and order.

A rather huge instance of secession took place within the last generation and was pretty peaceful and orderly, at least as far as the collapse of a mega-state can be.

[Valmy]

Does the constitution cover secesion? 

Nope.  The arguements in favor usually revolve around the 10th Amendment.

[Valmy]

A rather huge instance of secession took place within the last generation and was pretty peaceful and orderly, at least as far as the collapse of a mega-state can be.

That certainly could have been worse that was for sure.  It was more or less peaceful (with some pretty notable exceptions) but certainly not very orderly.

[Barrister]

If Texas wanted to secede it would hardly "destroy" the remaining union.  Life would go on.

The right to self-determination is well established, and is one that the US has recognized and asserted for other countries.  What makes the US so special that it is uniquely indivisible?

I don't believe in group rights and I think our recognition of that has only been a justification for murder and ethnic cleansing.  Self determination has meant you need to murder (or breed) your way to 51% to crazy nationalists all over the world.

The US is only indivisible to the extent it respects the rights of its citizens and protects them, as per the Constitution.

And if Texas is seceding it would spell the end of the US.  First of all we are part of region of likeminded states, if we are at that point we would not be anywhere near the first state to bolt.  Secondly once we do that every single time a State would feel screwed in an election or a decision a secession movement would start, either in earnest or to intimidate the majority into relenting on the point.  A Federal Democracy cannot function like that.

Except that in the real world states or regions don't bolt just because they lost an election.  A minority may sqwack about independence, but it doesn't go anywhere.  In order to get sufficient support for secession you need a fairly substantial grievance.

51% may or may not be sufficient by the way.  The SCC in it's constitutional question said the following:

Quebec could not, despite a clear referendum result, purport to invoke a right of self-determination to dictate the terms of a proposed secession to the other parties to the federation.  The democratic vote, by however strong a majority, would have no legal effect on its own and could not push aside the principles of federalism and the rule of law, the rights of individuals and minorities, or the operation of democracy in the other provinces or in Canada as a whole.  Democratic rights under the Constitution cannot be divorced from constitutional obligations.  Nor, however, can the reverse proposition be accepted: the continued existence and operation of the Canadian constitutional order could not be indifferent to a clear expression of a clear majority of Quebecers that they no longer wish to remain in Canada.  The other provinces and the federal government would have no basis to deny the right of the government of Quebec to pursue secession should a clear majority of the people of Quebec choose that goal, so long as in doing so, Quebec respects the rights of others.  The negotiations that followed such a vote would address the potential act of secession as well as its possible terms should in fact secession proceed.  There would be no conclusions predetermined by law on any issue.  Negotiations would need to address the interests of the other provinces, the federal government and Quebec and indeed the rights of all Canadians both within and outside Quebec, and specifically the rights of minorities.

Note the repeated references to a "clear majority".

I know you folks had a rather painful experience with secession, but it can be done in a peaceful and orderly manner.

Yeah the history of secession is just full of peace and order. 

You are perhaps familiar with the nation formerly known as Czechoslovakia?

[chipwich]

If it's California or the Deep South, yes.

[Habbaku]

Why would we get rid of California?  It's paying the bills for a lot of the other states.  Now, if we could just take away their representation...

[chipwich]

Why would we get rid of California?  It's paying the bills for a lot of the other states.  Now, if we could just take away their representation...

It won't pay the bills when there's a reckoning on it's debt.

[viper37]

No Viper, I wouldnt let Quebec Cecede.

Just like a Canadian to talk about Quebec in a thread about US states. 

yes, I was only asking Americans.  I don't care about what Canadians think of Quebec seperation issue.

[viper37]

Yeah the history of secession is just full of peace and order. 

It tends to happen after a long list of abuse...

[Zanza]

Can't really talk about the US, but living in a federal state myself, I would let a state secede if there is a clear democratic mandate from the population of that state to do so.

I don't think destruction of a country, along with the severe economic and social disruption that goes with that, should be handled like it was any ordinary political matter.  Surely you see there are things even a democratic mandate cannot legitimize.

Definitely. But I am not sure if secession is one of those. We did the opposite and de facto annexed another state 22 years ago and ended its existence. There was a very clear democratic mandate to do so and while it caused severe economic and social disruption, it was both worth it and legitimate. Not an ordinary political matter for sure, but then secession seems to be a very extraordinary act in democratic states. The Czechoslovaks splitting their country is one that I can think of.