America Gone Wild: The Reforestation of America

[garbon]

He said sometimes.

[dps]

He said sometimes.

Good point.

[HVC]

Very interesting... never thought about it that way.

antler size, on average, is statistically  smaller in hunting areas then in the wide open north. At least in Canada, eh.

[Tamas]

Very interesting... never thought about it that way.

I have several problems on that topic:

-predators catch the weak because they can't catch the strong. It is against their interests to make the herbivores stronger, but they have no choice
-only fucking reason predators don't massacre herbivore populations and grow two tons like your average American is that they are not capable of doing so. It is not some special human nature. If you ever had a dog, you saw how he/she basically ate as much as you gave him/her

-humans are part of the fucking enviroment. If you are a deer living  in an enclave sourrounded by humans, it is apparently evolutionary benefical to have smaller antlers. Considering nature as something not including humans is ridiculous

[Alcibiades]

-only fucking reason predators don't massacre herbivore populations and grow two tons like your average American is that they are not capable of doing so.

[Viking]

I would say that on any given day, I pass an average of 5-10 roadkill deer on my way to work.  They're everywhere around here, including in my yard all the time.  My dog enjoys barking his head off at them.

When I was in Karratha I was averaging about roadkill 40 Red Kangaroos passed per week on my 15 minute commute to work. These fuckers are 6ft tall. The local council had a roving carrion patrol and picked the corpses up every day. Oil patch driving safety coaches us never to brake for kangaroos, just drive through them, that's what bumper guards are for.

[Maximus]

-predators catch the weak because they can't catch the strong. It is against their interests to make the herbivores stronger, but they have no choice
-only fucking reason predators don't massacre herbivore populations and grow two tons like your average American is that they are not capable of doing so. It is not some special human nature. If you ever had a dog, you saw how he/she basically ate as much as you gave him/her
-humans are part of the fucking enviroment. If you are a deer living  in an enclave sourrounded by humans, it is apparently evolutionary benefical to have smaller antlers. Considering nature as something not including humans is ridiculous

While this is true, the issue is one of balance. Evolutionary processes are slow. Over Millennia, areas converge to a more or less stable ecosystem. We, on the other hand, have gone from fearing wolves to massacring them in a mere 500 years, as an example. The natural course for such an organism is for us to destroy the systems that support us and then crash. Most of us do not want that to happen, so it behooves us to use the same abilities that allow us to advance so fast to manage ourselves in such a way that we don't destroy everything we touch.

[Valmy]

If you live downtown in Austin it is infested with raccoons and possums.   When I lived downtown and drove around at night I would see them all scurry into the sewers when I drove by and they saw my headlights.  I used to have a giant Possum that would hang outside my apartment.  I would not be shocked at all if there were more of them than people downtown.

In the burbs you not only have the raccoons and possums but also wild pigs, deer, and armadillos.  And of course you have birds and stray dogs and cats and squirrels everywhere.  Squirrels are chewing the hell out of my house, and break in from time to time, I have no idea how to stop them but keep plugging holes and repairing damage.

[Eddie Teach]

Wolves are still pretty scary, that's why people don't like to visit Canada without their guns. 

[Valmy]

Wolves are still pretty scary, that's why people don't like to visit Canada without their guns. 

Yeah you don't want to F with wolves.  Even Coyotes are pretty unnerving with their incessant howling all night.

[Maximus]

Coyotes are pansies. And other wolves are extremely rare in even lightly populated areas due to aforementioned massacres.

[Valmy]

Coyotes are pansies.

Yeah and that is why they are still around.

[Maximus]

Yep, but no more scary than your average dog. Less so in many cases because they'd rather run than fight.

[CountDeMoney]

Very interesting... never thought about it that way.

I have several problems on that topic:

-predators catch the weak because they can't catch the strong. It is against their interests to make the herbivores stronger, but they have no choice
-only fucking reason predators don't massacre herbivore populations and grow two tons like your average American is that they are not capable of doing so. It is not some special human nature. If you ever had a dog, you saw how he/she basically ate as much as you gave him/her

Predators catch the easiest meal.  It is in their interests to do so, as hunger is the one singular constant in nature, even more so than procreation.  Been doing it since countless millennia.   Whether it's a solitary hunter like some species of big cats or pack hunters like wolves, predators do not, never have, or ever will worry about whether or not they're making their prey stronger.     There will always be easy kills like the young, the elderly and the infirm regardless of how "strong" they get.

-humans are part of the fucking enviroment. If you are a deer living  in an enclave sourrounded by humans, it is apparently evolutionary benefical to have smaller antlers. Considering nature as something not including humans is ridiculous

Problem is, the "evolutionary process" of deer in populated human areas is being shortcut tremendously by human hunting habits;  as some enclaves cannot successfully wander past their established boundaries, they're left to continue procreating among a poorer genetic population, as the healthy 10 point bucks wind up on garage trophy walls over the beer fridge, and healthy, mature females with successful birth rates end up in the freezer.   Hence the problems of perpetual genetic defects, infectious diseases and other maladies among populations of "suburban deer".

I know biology's a bit of new concept over there in Adidas Tracksuitistan, didn't think it was that bad.

[HVC]

Yep, but no more scary than your average dog. Less so in many cases because they'd rather run than fight.

until they cross breed with wolves.