America Gone Wild: The Reforestation of America

[Tamas]

So do I get it right that the arguments is:
-our evolution was so quick that we went from fearing animals of the wild to massacring them
-evolution is too slow to react to evolution

[Maximus]

No, evolution is too slow to handle intelligent design.

Evolution is stochastic. Human advancement is anything but.

[Tamas]

I don't think we should consider ourselves separate from the ecosystem, but what do I know.

[Maximus]

I don't think we should consider ourselves separate from the ecosystem, but what do I know.

You're clearly not reading anything I say. Wanna go weigh in in the VG thread?

[Tonitrus]

I blame this...

[MadImmortalMan]

Evolution was too slow to handle meteor impacts in the past. And rapid-onset ice ages. Probably particularly virulent diseases.

[Zanza]

So do I get it right that the arguments is:
-our evolution was so quick that we went from fearing animals of the wild to massacring them
-evolution is too slow to react to evolution

Humans are an extraordinary species in Earth's evolution. Our evolution all of a sudden became "critical" when a bit more brainpower made us the dominant species on Earth, by far the most "fit for survival". The following explosive growth of our capabilities and adaptability can't be matched by any other species because our growing capabilities aren't a biological process anymore, but rather a technological and cultural process. So even if we are part of the biosystem, we are a total exception and thus upset the balance that is the basis for normal biological evolutionary processes as we were the game changers that brought new non-biological concepts into consideration.

[Tamas]

For sure. I am just at loss at what we are supposed to do about it. Not killing whales for Asian fetish shit, that's reasonable. Letting deer run amok so we make super sure some will get mighty antlers seems iffy.

I guess my point is that we are game changers yes, but if we try to run things as if nature and our seven billion population were two separate things, we will do more harm than good.

The antler thing is a bit of a stupid example but still: pre-human civilisation, the bigger antler a deer had, the better odds he had. Now, not so much. Now it is the less glamorous male going around making babies, since Mr. Big Antler is busy dodging bullets. So the next generations will not be mass-murdered for esthetic reasons. There, adoption to a changed circumstance :p

[PDH]

I think Seedy's point was that Humans are the only hunters who go after the trophy, and have for a long time.  The megafauna die-off, the buffalo jumps, the shooting of animals for just one tasty bit...all are far different from what the "natural" hunter-prey interaction is.

[Caliga]

On a related note, I will be voting on the following ballot measure tomorrow:

Measure Text

Are you in favor of amending the Kentucky constitution to state that the citizens of Kentucky have the personal right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife, subject to laws and regulations that promote conservation and preserve the future of hunting and fishing, and to state that public hunting and fishing shall be a preferred means of managing and controlling wildlife?

__YES

__NO

[jimmy olsen]

I think Seedy's point was that Humans are the only hunters who go after the trophy, and have for a long time.  The megafauna die-off, the buffalo jumps, the shooting of animals for just one tasty bit...all are far different from what the "natural" hunter-prey interaction is.

Orca's have killed Fin whales just to eat the tongue IIRC.

On the other hand, they're probably as smart as an Ape, so it's not usual behavior for a predator.

[Valmy]

On a related note, I will be voting on the following ballot measure tomorrow:

Measure Text

Are you in favor of amending the Kentucky constitution to state that the citizens of Kentucky have the personal right to hunt, fish, and harvest wildlife, subject to laws and regulations that promote conservation and preserve the future of hunting and fishing, and to state that public hunting and fishing shall be a preferred means of managing and controlling wildlife?

__YES

__NO

Wait what does the Constitution say now?  What makes this amendment necessary?

[Caliga]

I dunno.  I'm guessing hunting isn't mentioned at all.

[CountDeMoney]

Lulz, wanna get on some watch lists?

Click on this one:
http://www.constitution.org/mil/ky/mil_usky.htm

[Caliga]

Those are all hick counties.  None of the civilized counties have representatives, it seems.