Pregnant from Rape? That's God at work, says GOP senatorial candidate.

Started by Syt, October 24, 2012, 01:03:17 AM

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Martinus

The problem with the "rape exception" is that it is either useless or a "free abortion" in disguise.

Fate

Quote from: Phillip V on October 24, 2012, 01:10:05 AM
Provide free and immediate emergency contraception to rape victims, but I am leaning towards banning abortions in most cases after perhaps 6-10 weeks.
Why 6-10 weeks and not at conception?

Kleves

This guy's position is at least logical given what he believes. From the point of view who thinks that life begins at conception (i.e. what Romney and Ryan profess to believe) allowing abortions in the case of rape and incest makes no sense.
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ed Anger

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

Malthus

Quote from: Kleves on October 24, 2012, 08:53:46 AM
This guy's position is at least logical given what he believes. From the point of view who thinks that life begins at conception (i.e. what Romney and Ryan profess to believe) allowing abortions in the case of rape and incest makes no sense.

This is true. If a fetus is a full human, allowing abortion in cases of rape etc. makes no more sense than allowing the mom to shoot the kid when s/he's 12 because s/he was the product of a rape.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

PDH

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: Malthus on October 24, 2012, 09:04:41 AM
Quote from: Kleves on October 24, 2012, 08:53:46 AM
This guy's position is at least logical given what he believes. From the point of view who thinks that life begins at conception (i.e. what Romney and Ryan profess to believe) allowing abortions in the case of rape and incest makes no sense.

This is true. If a fetus is a full human, allowing abortion in cases of rape etc. makes no more sense than allowing the mom to shoot the kid when s/he's 12 because s/he was the product of a rape.


Hypocrisy is allowed in cases of political expediency.
PDH!

DGuller

Quote from: Razgovory on October 24, 2012, 08:59:21 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 24, 2012, 08:20:49 AM
Well, whose work is it then?  The only other candidate is Devil.

Or maybe, you know the rapist?
:hmm:  That's an interesting way to look at it.

alfred russel

So one republican senate candidate believes women can not get pregnant through rape, while another believes god sees to it that women get pregnant from rape. The republicans are truly the big tent party.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Malthus

Quote from: alfred russel on October 24, 2012, 09:33:33 AM
So one republican senate candidate believes women can not get pregnant through rape, while another believes god sees to it that women get pregnant from rape. The republicans are truly the big tent party.

Just don't go in that tent alone after dark.  :ph34r:
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

CountDeMoney

Quote from: garbon on October 24, 2012, 08:07:28 AM
Quote from: Scipio on October 24, 2012, 07:35:32 AM
Indiana.  'nuff said.

Does MS have anywhere to talk?

No shit.  Indiana?  Then explain Mississippi, Missouri, Virginia and Kansas.

alfred russel

Quote from: Malthus on October 24, 2012, 09:34:57 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 24, 2012, 09:33:33 AM
So one republican senate candidate believes women can not get pregnant through rape, while another believes god sees to it that women get pregnant from rape. The republicans are truly the big tent party.

Just don't go in that tent alone after dark.  :ph34r:

:D
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Martinus

As I said before (and had no time to develop), the "rape exception" is in my view an example of a compromise that does not really make sense (for the reasons mentioned by others) and does not really work in practice.

There are only two ways this could work - either the rape must be determined by the court in a criminal case - in which case it is unlikely to be done before the mother gives birth; or it's the woman has an unilateral right to claim the child is conceived by rape (e.g. by an unknown rapist), in which case it becomes a de facto unrestricted abortion.

Kleves

At least this guy isn't the worst candidate in America. that honor goes to Mark Clayton:
QuoteWHITES CREEK, Tenn. — The Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate in Tennessee has no campaign headquarters, a fundraising drive stuck at $278 and one yard sign. Not one type of yard sign. One sign.

And with the election just days away, he has not actually put that sign in a yard. Instead, it resides inside candidate Mark Clayton's pickup. "VOTE FOR," the sign says. The rest is hidden by the seats.

"Jesus did not have a campaign staff. And he had the most successful campaign in human history," Clayton said recently, when asked if all this adds up to a winning run against incumbent Sen. Bob Corker (R). Jesus "didn't even have pictures or a Web site."

This may be America's worst candidate.

Clayton, 36, is a part-time flooring installer, an indulger in conspiracy theories — and for Democrats here, the living personification of rock bottom
. In a state that produced Democratic icons including Andrew Jackson and both Al Gores, the party has fallen so far that it can't even run a good loser.

Instead, it has this guy. In Tennessee, Clayton's unlikely run is providing an absurdist coda to a long Democratic disaster. Something like falling down a flight of stairs onto a whoopee cushion.

"It's pretty sad. I mean, when your nomination is not worth having, that's embarrassing," said Will T. Cheek, a Nashville investor who has been a member of the state Democratic Party's executive committee since 1970. "That would appear to be where we are."

Every election, of course, is crowded with losers: the sacrificial lambs, the one-issue zealots, the novelty name-changers (Thomas Jefferson, of Kansas, is running for Congress. Santa Claus, of Nevada, is running for president).

But Clayton stands out. Nobody who has the opportunity he has — a major-party nomination for the Senate in a nail-biter election in which every Senate race has outsize importance — has so little chance of taking advantage of it.

In Wyoming, Democratic challenger Tim Chesnut is a long shot; his actual slogan is "Chesnut is the best nut for Senate." But he at least has his party behind him. In Washington, Republican challenger Michael Baumgartner recently told a reporter to "go [expletive] yourself." But he at least has raised nearly $1 million.

In Tennessee, Clayton's policy ideas set him apart from many other Democrats: He is unusual in opposing abortion rights and same-sex marriage, but he's downright exceptional in saying that the Transportation Security Administration "mandates [transsexuals] and homosexuals grabbing children in their stranger-danger zones."

He has been a volunteer for Public Advocate of the United States, a Falls Church-based organization that was branded a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for its anti-gay rhetoric.

During Clayton's failed Senate run in 2008, his Web site suggested that the U.S. government might be replaced with a "North American Union" and that Google was working against him at the behest of the Chinese government.

But his ideas about campaigning itself might be even more un­or­tho­dox. Almost everything other candidates do, Clayton said, is wrong.

"There's other people who have gone out and put signs all over, and gone and talked to people," he said on the phone. "And they get less votes. They go down."

He explained that "a lot of people don't have time to take off work and [from paying] their bills to go and stage a campaign rally to make it look like something's happening. . . . That's the news media's problem" if there aren't rallies to cover, he said.


"If there are people out here who don't understand that there's a different way of doing things, then that's their problem. We won the primary."

The son of an activist who lobbied Congress on behalf of Christian schools, Clayton does little campaigning in the physical world. He focuses on his Facebook page (382 "likes") and Web site.

When a reporter asked about upcoming rallies or public events, Clayton declined to name any. One evening last week, a visit to an address listed for his campaign led to Clayton's 92-year-old farmhouse outside Nashville.

The one sign was in the truck. The truck was in the driveway. The candidate was coming out to get his mail. Was he confident that he would beat Corker?

"Of course," Clayton said. He is a youthful-looking Army Reserve veteran and was wearing a plaid flannel shirt and slightly long sideburns. How could he be so sure he'd win?

Clayton turned and walked away. "I don't know why you're here," he said, having reached the porch. "I don't come to your house."


A party's fall

The last time Corker ran for Senate, in 2006, Tennessee Democrats nominated Harold Ford Jr., a centrist congressman and the son of a congressman. Ford came within three percentage points of becoming the first black man elected to the Senate from the South since Reconstruction.

After that, things fell apart.

Tennessee Democrats, who'd watched their conservative voters drift to the GOP, finally lost the state House in 2010. That had been a financial lifeline for Democrats, since the legislature has broad powers over patronage.

"That pretty much was the end," said Cheek, the executive committee member. "Because we have nothing left. In the other low points, we had the Election Commission, we had the Building Commission. . . . If you wanted to get state deposits into your bank, those were all ours. And that's where you'd raise your money."

Losing those powers "really kicked the props out from under the financing of the party," Cheek said.

This year, the cash-poor party faced a rematch with Corker, now a popular incumbent with $14 million to spend. It went looking for a candidate who could run on the cheap, and they thought they'd found someone in Park Overall.

"I said to him that night on the phone, 'Ain't you got anybody — g-----n it, Chip — to run?' And he said no," recalled Overall, an actress best known for playing the sassy nurse Laverne on the 1990s sitcom "Empty Nest."

Overall, 55, had returned to her native Tennessee as a well-known liberal. She was talking to the state Democratic chairman, Chip Forrester.

She resisted. For a while.

"Then, he caught me drinking one night," Overall recounted in a phone interview. "And I said: 'Aw, hellfire. Let's just do it.' "

It didn't go well. Overall refused to spend more than $100 of her own money on the campaign ("I was a big actress years ago. Money goes."). She said the party wasn't much help, either: It loaned her a book called "Deer Hunting With Jesus" to help reach religious voters. Overall was also sidelined for weeks by illness.

When the primary arrived on Aug. 2, she came in third, with 24,000 votes. In second place was Gary Gene Davis, a Chattanooga man who spent less than $100 ("And that was in gas," Davis said).

.In first place was Clayton, with 48,000 votes. He had spent just $65 to get them. But, state Democratic officials said, Clayton had a crucial advantage: The ballot was alphabetical.

"Many Democrats in Tennessee knew nothing about any of the candidates in the race, so they voted for the person at the top of the ticket," the party said in a statement the next day. Because of his ties to Public Advocate of the United States, the statement said, "the Tennessee Democratic Party disavows his candidacy [and] will not do anything to promote or support him in any way."

A quiet campaign

Today, it's easy to visit Tennessee and not realize that there's a Senate campaign going on.

At Corker's headquarters in Nashville, the campaign hasn't even bothered with a sign out front.

Clayton, for his part, has released a few online ads and a revamped Web site. But a recent drive to raise $450 in donations has stalled south of $300.

It's clear, however, that he is savoring a victory already — over the rest of Tennessee's Democrats.

"If there are people who don't believe that there's a campaign here, then guess what? They can come to Tennessee, if they're a voter, and they can see Mark E. Clayton, and next to Mark E. Clayton there's going to be a 'D,' " he said on the phone. "Like it or not, Mark Clayton is the Democratic nominee in Tennessee."

Among others in his party, there's hope that this is really the bottom. They're encouraged by a new crop of Democratic mayors in the state's big cities. And they're trying to figure out a screening test that will keep people like Clayton off the Democratic ballot in the future.

But it's hard to find a definition of "Democrat" that everyone here likes.

"We have a large segment of our party that's pro-life. . . . And you know, a lot of us have guns," said Jim Bilbo, an executive committee member from Cleveland, Tenn. "We're not going to come up with language saying, you know, 'We believe in a woman's right to choose,' and all that stuff.

"All of the suggestions that I have seen have been so broad that they're almost meaningless," Bilbo said. "Like, 'Stand up for the principles of the Democratic Party.' Well, what are those principles?"

In this election, Democrats have told their voters just to write in a name instead of voting for Clayton. But at this low ebb, they don't have another name to suggest.

Just pick somebody, voters are told. Word is, a lot of early voters used "Big Bird."
Though I do applaud his suspicion of China. :hmm:
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.