Reuters: US ambassador to Libya dead

[Neil]

It's like taking a moral stand against gravity.

No, it's like taking a moral stand against a cruel, totalitarian despot.

But not exactly.  A despot is just a man who thinks he's a god.  A true god really is better than any man, or all men.  A god is totalitarian by his nature. because he is all that is.  A god is cruel by his nature, because he defines what is and isn't just.  When you're the universe, and it conforms to your whim, no man is fit to judge you.

Taking a stand where you can't make any difference and where your punishment will be unending isn't noble or brave.  It's madness.

[garbon]

Would appear an irrelevant moral stand as you'd have no hope of making change. Even if everyone stood up, said god could just wipe you all out and start fresh.

Freeeeeeeeeedom!

I'm not sure freedom stated like that is possible when we're all dead.

[Neil]

Would appear an irrelevant moral stand as you'd have no hope of making change. Even if everyone stood up, said god could just wipe you all out and start fresh.

Freeeeeeeeeedom!

I'm not sure freedom stated like that is possible when we're all dead.

Not just dead, but either being tormented eternally or as if having never existed in the first place.

[Razgovory]

But I suppose that is better then admitting you're wrong.

[Jacob]

Well, so far I'm not being punished eternally so I'm pretty confident that I'm not wrong on this.

That, or god is not some petty asshole like you're hypothesizing.

[Neil]

Well, so far I'm not being punished eternally so I'm pretty confident that I'm not wrong on this.

That, or god is not some petty asshole like you're hypothesizing.

That's because there's no god in real life.  If there was, you would be entirely in the wrong.

[garbon]

Not just dead, but either being tormented eternally or as if having never existed in the first place.

Well that depends on the god we're talking about.

@Jacob - Kinda what Neil said. I mean my statement came on the hypothetical of someone who believed in a god and said god was monstrous (by some human definition).  I don't think anyone was hypothesizing what you suggested we were hypothesizing.

[Razgovory]

Well, so far I'm not being punished eternally so I'm pretty confident that I'm not wrong on this.

That, or god is not some petty asshole like you're hypothesizing.

That or you get punished after you die.

[Jacob]

That or you get punished after you die.

I'll worry about that after I die then.

[Eddie Teach]

That or you get punished after you die.

I'll worry about that after I die then.

If you really thought it was a likely possibility it would be worth worrying about now.

[Jacob]

If you really thought it was a likely possibility it would be worth worrying about now.

True.

But then, what reason do I have to think that Raz's hypothetical complete asshole god is more likely to exist than a hypothetical not an asshole god?

[Neil]

If you really thought it was a likely possibility it would be worth worrying about now.

True.

But then, what reason do I have to think that Raz's hypothetical complete asshole god is more likely to exist than a hypothetical not an asshole god?

What reason do you have to think that any god exists, apart from myself?  For the hypothetical to work, there has to be evidence of a god.  And if there is a god, you seem to think that you should rebel against him because he's a god.

[Jacob]

What reason do you have to think that any god exists, apart from myself?  For the hypothetical to work, there has to be evidence of a god.  And if there is a god, you seem to think that you should rebel against him because he's a god.

I don't think there is a god, but if there was and he was an asshole I'd rebel against him. In fact, I'd expect that's what he would want me to do - having made me as I am. I'd expect the asshole part was nothing but a test, and that all the idiots who went along with the asshole requirements of the allegedly asshole god would be the ones to burn in hell (if such a place existed) for failing to use their moral faculties appropriately.

[Maximus]

It's like taking a moral stand against gravity.

Only if you disregard free will. I didn't take you for a Calvinist

[Razgovory]

Sigh.  No.  One does not need to believe in predestination to think that rebelling against God is a bad idea.  Jake already doesn't believe in God, so it's a moot point.  His reasoning strikes me as bizarre though, God will reward me if I do the opposite of what he says because I'm staying true to my own moral code that I just made up.