Reuters: US ambassador to Libya dead

[garbon]

You are uninformed. The cartoons were commissioned as part of a project to expose the fact that illustrators were self-sensoring out of fear of muslim violence. They were created to expose precisely the intimidation that we saw after the Danish Imams spent months shopping around the muslim world including this one

Gotcha, though in substance, don't really see that as different given that one had to know such things would offend (as that's why there was self-censorship in the first place!).

And if christians went around burning buildings and trying to axe-murder illustrators then I'd point out how violent and evil they were.

Okay?

You asked me if washington suggested the attacks were justified. Bush validated the emotions of the burners after saying the word "but". At worst he justified the attacks at best he laid down a moral equivalency between drawing rude pictures and murder.

That isn't really a justification for murder. If he says he understands how they can be offended that doesn't mean he understands why they would channel that into violence. I can understand how black people could be offended by being called the n-word but that doesn't mean it would be understandable if some black people when on a rampage and started killing random white people.

How about when you misunderstand me and I clarify what I meant originally you stop pretending your original misunderstanding was my main point?

I was pointing out to you that offended doesn't mean the same as act violently - so your initial statement was nonsensical like I said (whereas what I'm quoting of you here seems to suggest it was my fault).

[Viking]

You are uninformed. The cartoons were commissioned as part of a project to expose the fact that illustrators were self-sensoring out of fear of muslim violence. They were created to expose precisely the intimidation that we saw after the Danish Imams spent months shopping around the muslim world including this one

Gotcha, though in substance, don't really see that as different given that one had to know such things would offend (as that's why there was self-censorship in the first place!).

The point is that in western liberal enlightenment societies self censorship due to physical intimidation is considered a bad thing which is harmful to the fabric of society itself.

You asked me if washington suggested the attacks were justified. Bush validated the emotions of the burners after saying the word "but". At worst he justified the attacks at best he laid down a moral equivalency between drawing rude pictures and murder.

That isn't really a justification for murder. If he says he understands how they can be offended that doesn't mean he understands why they would channel that into violence. I can understand how black people could be offended by being called the n-word but that doesn't mean it would be understandable if some black people when on a rampage and started killing random white people.

And I didn't say it was. You asked about justification for the attacks on the embassies, that is what I responded with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v-b4huMjHU&feature=player_detailpage#t=122s

"but"

How about when you misunderstand me and I clarify what I meant originally you stop pretending your original misunderstanding was my main point?

I was pointing out to you that offended doesn't mean the same as act violently - so your initial statement was nonsensical like I said (whereas what I'm quoting of you here seems to suggest it was my fault).

In your mind it might be nonsensical. As I agreed you misunderstood me, I clarified and you continued to argue against your misunderstanding. Am I supposed to consider you honest?

[Malthus]

Damn. Sounds like the world's most successful troll. 

Pretty successful, yes. Not particularly funny, I don't think.

More like absurd. 

[Jacob]

More like absurd.

Yeah, it's pretty absurd.

[Tonitrus]

Aaaand, Fox News has pretty clear/graphic pictures of his body being dragged along the street by Libyans(one with an iPhone in his mouth, no less!) on their front page.  Stay classy.

[Martinus]

Muslims are animals. Film at 11.

[Martinus]

How many innocent Coptics are going to die because of this?

Allow me to respond by quoting the holy book of the only religion I have ever subscribed to for more than 10 minutes* in my adult life:

Onwards Christian Soldiers,
Onwards Buddhist Priests.
Onward, Fruits of Islam,
Fight till you're deceased.
Fight your little battles.
Join in thickest fray;
For the Greater Glory,
of Dis-cord-i-a.
Yah, yah, yah,
Yah, yah, yah, yah.
Blfffffffffffft!

*Exactly 15 minutes and 34 seconds.

[Queequeg]

Right.  Because, clearly, the Copts are just as bad as the Salafists.

[garbon]

The point is that in western liberal enlightenment societies self censorship due to physical intimidation is considered a bad thing which is harmful to the fabric of society itself.

I'm not sure I entirely agree - as in that case I think it was a bit of picking one's battles. I guess we could continue to publish lame things they find offensive but I'm not sure where we have room to be surprised that they then act in a ridiculous violent manner - unless we are planning to do something to curb them of their violent ways. (And I don't think a sharply worded retort qualifies.)

And I didn't say it was. You asked about justification for the attacks on the embassies, that is what I responded with.

Usually when someone says justification, they mean a statement that defends/supports something. I don't see how one could say that Bush's statement defended extremism only that it spoke to how they could reasonably be upset.

In your mind it might be nonsensical. As I agreed you misunderstood me, I clarified and you continued to argue against your misunderstanding. Am I supposed to consider you honest?

Yes, I'm being honest. You used the word "offend" to mean something that it did not. I did misunderstand what you wrote because you used a word contrary to its definition. I'd be fine with that except that you're suggesting the failing was on my part.

[Tonitrus]

Muslims are animals. Film at 11.

I was thinking more of Fox News in regards to classiness...but plenty of blame to go around.

[Valmy]

I was thinking more of Fox News in regards to classiness...but plenty of blame to go around.

It is the Democrats fault for their appeasement.  This is just like Munich all over again.

[citizen k]

Excellent remarks by Secretary Clinton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di9E4da5G4k

[alfred russel]

Why was an ambassador there without the marines?

[Valmy]

Why was an ambassador there without the marines?

They were not in the Embassy (and actually we just have a Consulate in Bengazi so I am not even sure this guy was technically an ambassador) and it was a rocket attack. 

[alfred russel]

Berkut, if you are reading this thread, now do you agree that it was wrong to get involved?

To the extent we can, we need to disengage with the Arabic world for a while.