25 years old and deep in debt

[Admiral Yi]

Unless you qualify it with other information, I would not distinguish between "I used to be a practicing Jew" and "I have been a practicing Jew".

I suggest you reconsider your position.  For one thing, Meri is on my side.  For another, I'm going to assign Raz the project of watching all of your posts to see if this interpretation is reflected in your own communication.

[Eddie Teach]

Fhdz used to be a Catholic. Fhdz has been a Catholic.

[Malthus]

Unless you qualify it with other information, I would not distinguish between "I used to be a practicing Jew" and "I have been a practicing Jew".

I suggest you reconsider your position.  For one thing, Meri is on my side.  For another, I'm going to assign Raz the project of watching all of your posts to see if this interpretation is reflected in your own communication.

Bringing out the nuclear option I see. 

[Admiral Yi]

Bringing out the nuclear option I see. 

I'm playing for keeps.

[merithyn]

Unless you qualify it with other information, I would not distinguish between "I used to be a practicing Jew" and "I have been a practicing Jew".

I suggest you reconsider your position.  For one thing, Meri is on my side.  For another, I'm going to assign Raz the project of watching all of your posts to see if this interpretation is reflected in your own communication.

I'm not, really. I just see a distinction in levels of poverty that appears to be missing here.

From what Malthus has said, he just doesn't seem like he was all that poor. Not having money to go to a movie and not having money to eat are two different things. I mean, sure, eating Ramen Noodles isn't exactly gourmet, but unless you had it every meal for months at a time, I'm not sure why the fact that you've eaten them means anything.

If, however, you say that in fact, you weren't sure where your next meal was coming from, or you did, in fact, eat Ramen Noodles every meal every day for months at a time, then I'll happily revise my opinion.

I say that you weren't poor because, by the standards that I grew up with, you weren't.

[Caliga]

Fhdz used to be a Catholic. Fhdz has been a Catholic.

A balloo is a bear.  A younker is a young man.

[crazy canuck]

Malthus,

Without wanting to pile on too much.  There was a period in my childhood when my parents could not afford to buy new clothes for me.  That was a problem because this was a period when I was growing rapidly.  There were no charities that could provide clothes to me because who thinks to donate clothes of that size

Likely for me a local merchant offered a "deal" to my dad.  The merchant gave me my clothes and allowed my dad to pay him back when he got the money - interest free.  That is more in line with what I consider being poor.

When I got my first sholarship money I went to pay back the amount left over (my dad had paid back some but not all of the amount).  The merchant refused the money and wished me luck. 

I was fortunate to have recieved this kindness but obviously not all people recieve these benefits.

That's a wonderful anecdote, but I dunno how having a childhood deprived of clothes is necessary to having an adulthood episode of being poor.

Again, you guys are simply ignoring the possibility of downward social mobility - presumably, according to you, everyone who has educated parents and who gets an undergraduate degree forefits forever any right to later consideration for being poor, because, you know, if they later lack the ability to earn money, it was just their voluntary choice.

That I can't fathom.  Particularly these days, when there are literally millions of folks who cannot, no matter what they do, get decent jobs even with a BA.

Not having clothing is not a necessary condition.  But it is a sufficient condition of being poor.  You describe a life in which you did not live in concern of when you might next eat, whether you might have clothing and you were certainly never in any doubt that there would always be a roof over your head in one form or another.

I have not ignored the possibility of your downward mobility.  I expressly addressed it.  You might have missed the post where I said in part:

the reason I didnt include [a reference to downward mobility] is because you didnt actually suffer it.  The potential of downward mobility is something everyone risks to one degree or another.  Except the poor   If you have suffered downward mobility and had in fact become poor then we wouldnt be having this discussion

.


DGuller identified the problem quite well. It is a bit comical to hear someone who I would have considered rich at the time I was poor to try to make out the case that he was in the same socio-economic circumstances simply because he suffered from some concern of downward mobility.  The poor dont have that concern.  They are already there.  The concern of the poor is how to find the necessities of life.

[Malthus]

I'm not, really. I just see a distinction in levels of poverty that appears to be missing here.

From what Malthus has said, he just doesn't seem like he was all that poor. Not having money to go to a movie and not having money to eat are two different things. I mean, sure, eating Ramen Noodles isn't exactly gourmet, but unless you had it every meal for months at a time, I'm not sure why the fact that you've eaten them means anything.

If, however, you say that in fact, you weren't sure where your next meal was coming from, or you did, in fact, eat Ramen Noodles every meal every day for months at a time, then I'll happily revise my opinion.

I say that you weren't poor because, by the standards that I grew up with, you weren't.

Maybe I wasn't poor by your exacting standards, but then, I suspect that if your standards are 'worried about literally starving/eating ramen for months straight', pretty well no-one in Canada outside a native reservation is "poor" by your standards - our social safety net is rather more robust than that down south. 

Poverty is relative. I'm sure someone from the Congo could tell you how mistaken you are to think you were "poor". 

To my mind, working a menial occupation that pays little more than minimum wage and with no possibility of making more in the future is "poor" - maybe "working poor" as opposed to "welfare-collecting poor", but "poor" nonetheless.

I'd hate to have attempted having kids while earning that kind of money.

[MadImmortalMan]

If the hot water, electricity and heat didn't constantly get shut off, I might not have learned the importance of using only what I need and paying for it on time.

If my parents had all kinds of connections that I could use to help get ahead, I would never have needed to learn how to build those relationships myself.

If my parents had been able to pay for my school, I would probably have wasted all the time that I otherwise spent in the working world getting the experience that boosted me into having a career.

If the living environment at my parents house had been pleasant, it would probably not have been as important to me as it was to get the fuck on my own and upgrade my life.

If I hadn't seen my parents working hard and getting nowhere, I might have the false impression that hard work is all you need to have to get ahead, or that people deserve a living just because they work hard.




Being poor: ADVANTAGE

[Admiral Yi]

Lucky fuck.

[crazy canuck]

I'd hate to have attempted having kids while earning that kind of money.

Exactly, now put yourself in the postion of a family that does make that kind of money or less and you start to have an idea of what being poor really is.

[Jacob]

Being poor: ADVANTAGE

Sounds like you turned it into an advantage. It doesn't sound like it was an advantage for your parents.

[crazy canuck]

Lucky fuck.

[merithyn]

I'd hate to have attempted having kids while earning that kind of money.

And my point is that my mother was raising three kids and caring for a sick husband on exactly that kind of wages. I'm not sure that's "exacting standards". Everyone in my neighborhood was in the same situation. Hell, everyone I knew with the exception of one uncle was in the same situation.

I agree that poor is a relative term. Nonetheless, it's hard to come from the situation that I grew up in and accept your understanding of poor as valid. Maybe that's unfair, but as you say... it's all relative.

[merithyn]

If the hot water, electricity and heat didn't constantly get shut off, I might not have learned the importance of using only what I need and paying for it on time.

If my parents had all kinds of connections that I could use to help get ahead, I would never have needed to learn how to build those relationships myself.

If my parents had been able to pay for my school, I would probably have wasted all the time that I otherwise spent in the working world getting the experience that boosted me into having a career.

If the living environment at my parents house had been pleasant, it would probably not have been as important to me as it was to get the fuck on my own and upgrade my life.

If I hadn't seen my parents working hard and getting nowhere, I might have the false impression that hard work is all you need to have to get ahead, or that people deserve a living just because they work hard.




Being poor: ADVANTAGE

One learns many things in life, regardless of their situation.