25 years old and deep in debt

[crazy canuck]

In the early stages of interviewing, someone who went to Iowa State University would get just as fair a shake from me as someone who went to MIT for engineering, even though ISU is around 40 on the list of top engineering schools and MIT is in the top four. Now, if it came down to the two candidates and I just couldn't decide between them, I'd probably lean toward the MIT person.

Sure, all things being equal that makes sense.  But given the difficulty of getting into MIT chances are that all things would not be equal.

I don't follow.  Other than the MIT grad being expected to perform better in the interviews and possibly having more interesting undergrad projects to talk about, how are things not equal?

The people who get into MIT probably have more interesting backgrounds, have done more, have better grades, have done more interesting things etc etc etc on average because it is harder to get into MIT.

[merithyn]

In the early stages of interviewing, someone who went to Iowa State University would get just as fair a shake from me as someone who went to MIT for engineering, even though ISU is around 40 on the list of top engineering schools and MIT is in the top four. Now, if it came down to the two candidates and I just couldn't decide between them, I'd probably lean toward the MIT person.

Sure, all things being equal that makes sense.  But given the difficulty of getting into MIT chances are that all things would not be equal.

I don't follow.  Other than the MIT grad being expected to perform better in the interviews and possibly having more interesting undergrad projects to talk about, how are things not equal?

The people who get into MIT probably have more interesting backgrounds, have done more, have better grades, have done more interesting things etc etc etc on average because it is harder to get into MIT.

Why would I care about what they did in high school when they're applying for a job out of college?

[crazy canuck]

In the early stages of interviewing, someone who went to Iowa State University would get just as fair a shake from me as someone who went to MIT for engineering, even though ISU is around 40 on the list of top engineering schools and MIT is in the top four. Now, if it came down to the two candidates and I just couldn't decide between them, I'd probably lean toward the MIT person.

Sure, all things being equal that makes sense.  But given the difficulty of getting into MIT chances are that all things would not be equal.

I don't follow.  Other than the MIT grad being expected to perform better in the interviews and possibly having more interesting undergrad projects to talk about, how are things not equal?

The people who get into MIT probably have more interesting backgrounds, have done more, have better grades, have done more interesting things etc etc etc on average because it is harder to get into MIT.

Why would I care about what they did in high school when they're applying for a job out of college?

Not sure how you translate that list into only what they did in high school.  Its about who they are as a person that you should be caring about because it is the person you are employing.  In a general way the choice of school has created a ready made rough tool for you to use.  Now it is quite possible that you might get a candidate from a lesser school who is in fact better than the MIT graduate.  That is why you have the interview process but that would be the exception rather than the rule.

[merithyn]

Not sure how you translate that list into only what they did in high school.  Its about who they are as a person that you should be caring about because it is the person you are employing.  In a general way the choice of school has created a ready made rough tool for you to use.  Now it is quite possible that you might get a candidate from a lesser school who is in fact better than the MIT graduate.  That is why you have the interview process but that would be the exception rather than the rule.

*shrugs*

Given that MIT has only an 8.5% admission rate - and I'm guessing that more than 8.5% of the people who apply are interesting folks with really cool backgrounds - I'm not sure where you get that, but okay.

[crazy canuck]

Not sure how you translate that list into only what they did in high school.  Its about who they are as a person that you should be caring about because it is the person you are employing.  In a general way the choice of school has created a ready made rough tool for you to use.  Now it is quite possible that you might get a candidate from a lesser school who is in fact better than the MIT graduate.  That is why you have the interview process but that would be the exception rather than the rule.

*shrugs*

Given that MIT has only an 8.5% admission rate - and I'm guessing that more than 8.5% of the people who apply are interesting folks with really cool backgrounds - I'm not sure where you get that, but okay.

Ok, so you think MIT takes people who are the least worthy.  Interesting.

[DGuller]

I think the SAT really does a disservice in that so many people achieve really high scores. The result is you have a bunch of people that can't be differentiated based on intelligence, so they get differentiated based on extra curriculars and other "soft" criteria. I could see an introverted and unathletic 1-1,000,000 type supergenius struggling to get admission to the really good schools.

I definitely did struggle with that. 

The supergenius part?

You laugh, but it's actually true to some extent.  It's hard to consistently stay on the "super" side of the genius/supergenius divide.

[merithyn]

*shrugs*

Given that MIT has only an 8.5% admission rate - and I'm guessing that more than 8.5% of the people who apply are interesting folks with really cool backgrounds - I'm not sure where you get that, but okay.

Ok, so you think MIT takes people who are the least worthy.  Interesting.

Not sure how you translate what I said to that, but okay. What I mean is that there are those who don't go to those schools who are just as worthy.

[Ideologue]

I think the SAT really does a disservice in that so many people achieve really high scores. The result is you have a bunch of people that can't be differentiated based on intelligence, so they get differentiated based on extra curriculars and other "soft" criteria. I could see an introverted and unathletic 1-1,000,000 type supergenius struggling to get admission to the really good schools.

I definitely did struggle with that. 

The supergenius part?

You laugh, but it's actually true to some extent.  It's hard to consistently stay on the "super" side of the genius/supergenius divide.

You're good at math.  That makes you smarter than probably anybody currently posting on Languish.  Hamilcar was smarter than you, and so was Vinraith.  But in the land of 1/1/1s the 1/3/1 is king.

[alfred russel]

I think the SAT really does a disservice in that so many people achieve really high scores. The result is you have a bunch of people that can't be differentiated based on intelligence, so they get differentiated based on extra curriculars and other "soft" criteria. I could see an introverted and unathletic 1-1,000,000 type supergenius struggling to get admission to the really good schools.

I definitely did struggle with that. 

The supergenius part?

You laugh, but it's actually true to some extent.  It's hard to consistently stay on the "super" side of the genius/supergenius divide.

I believe you. Getting through the actuarial exams is probably more difficult than scoring a 700+ on the math section of the SAT.

I assume you probably struggled on the verbal section because english is a second language.

[alfred russel]

You're good at math.  That makes you smarter than probably anybody currently posting on Languish.  Hamilcar was smarter than you, and so was Vinraith.  But in the land of 1/1/1s the 1/3/1 is king.

Why do you think that? Because Hamilcar and Vinraith stayed in school longer?

[CountDeMoney]

The one thing nobody's thought of regarding these "exit exams":  what happens when a kid--whose parents shelled out tons of money for four years for an education that an institution was expected to provide--fails the exit exam, or doesn't make decent enough marks?  Answer:  lawsuit!  ZOMG U HAD MAH KID AND MAH MONEY FOR 4 YEARS AND U FAILED

I fully expect the legal departments and boards of these institutions of higher education to reevaluate the merits of these "exit exams" regarding their institutional and academic reputations shortly after they begin.

[crazy canuck]

*shrugs*

Given that MIT has only an 8.5% admission rate - and I'm guessing that more than 8.5% of the people who apply are interesting folks with really cool backgrounds - I'm not sure where you get that, but okay.

Ok, so you think MIT takes people who are the least worthy.  Interesting.

Not sure how you translate what I said to that, but okay. What I mean is that there are those who don't go to those schools who are just as worthy.

I know that is your working assumption.  Problem is that is just based on your own assumptions.  At least the kids that got accepted have that over the kids that didnt.  You just want to ignore that accomplishment for a number of reasons you have already stated.

[Ideologue]

You're good at math.  That makes you smarter than probably anybody currently posting on Languish.  Hamilcar was smarter than you, and so was Vinraith.  But in the land of 1/1/1s the 1/3/1 is king.

Why do you think that? Because Hamilcar and Vinraith stayed in school longer?

They were scientists.  Vinraith was a biologist of some stripe and Hamilcar was an astrophysicist who works on galactic evolution and who works at [university, I'm not sure if he'd like me saying where].

I personally knew Hamilcar pretty well, and I occasionally still follow his work and publications.  The man should be basically everything I hate--born with the privilege not only of being European but richer than God, and much smarter than I am--he's not, he's a decent dude, but at the end of the day he's also a brilliant, brilliant guy.

[Ideologue]

I do wonder, however, if Hamilcar had not been born with a platinum spoon up his ass if he'd have gone into science.  Ironically, if he hadn't been rich, he'd probably have been one of those quant monsters in finance, without feeling or foresight, who together destroyed the Western world.

[Eddie Teach]

I'm good at math and I beat Guller's score on the SATs.