25 years old and deep in debt

[Jacob]

Isn't a cutter a kind of small boat? Let's discuss this at length.

A cutting remark from the Brain. So typical.

[Jacob]

I'm glad that I can amuse you Jacob, but I find it puzzling that someone talking about an issue without having all the facts is amusing.  This is Languish after all - we see this phenomenon on an hourly basis.   

[Admiral Yi]

He knows nothing of their business, their plan, their prior success, or the market they're in (except what Meri tells him) yet he's ready to call say their plan is terrible; presumably due to a dislike of cupcakes, young people with student loans, and/or people with degrees he doesn't like.

No need to presume; he spelled out his logic.  The storefront cupcake market appears to be cresting.  His mistake was in forgetting about the Martha Stewart home market.

And there's nothing at all illogical about pointing out that a lot of participants means a crowded market, which makes success harder.

[The Minsky Moment]

there is another unexplained assumption here:

How exactly is the personal uni debt stopping them from getting a business loan?
It is true that the personal debt lowers the value of a personal guarantee.
But if the sales of the business are sufficiently strong and business plan robust, a community bank may still lend, or alternatively, the business owner can get an SBA guarantee.
The SBA microloan program (up to 50K/6yrs)  seems tailor-made for this particular business need.

[Malthus]

My bad.  Jacob made the assumption the company was profitable, not you.

I think  it's a reasonable assumption to make - albeit with small profits - but I'm willing to concede on that point as it is secondary to my amusement at BB. What I'm finding funny are statements such as these:

And to my mind a business making cupcake toppers sounds like a terrible business to get into.  The cupcake fad has long since peaked.  They're trying to sell bell-bottom jeans and disco balls in 1982.

If not, then it sounds even worse - they're trying to enter a crowded market.

He knows nothing of their business, their plan, their prior success, or the market they're in (except what Meri tells him) yet he's ready to call say their plan is terrible; presumably due to a dislike of cupcakes, young people with student loans, and/or people with degrees he doesn't like.

As CC said, BB would make a terrible minister responsible for planning the allocation of cupcake thingies.

To my mind, from the article, the main problem appears to be that both of them are attempting to run a small-manufacturing business while at the same time pursue university degrees.

Ms. Carney, 29 years old, and her husband, John, 31, started Thick & Thin Designs, making and selling food picks in the shapes of zombies, bikes and deer antlers after a brainstorming session while she was cooking dinner. The couple, both students at the University of Maine, where he is earning a master's degree in fine arts and she is earning her second undergraduate degree, in zoology, sell the picks for about $12 a dozen as decorative cupcake toppers.

But they chose not to purchase a laser cutter, because doing so would require them to take out a business loan—and together they have $140,000 in leftover student debt. Instead, they use a university-owned laser cutter, which limits the size of the acrylic sheets they can work with. Having the student-loan debt "is preventing me from being able to take a lot of chances or risks that are usually necessary when starting a business," Ms. Carney says.

One of the "chances" most people who attempt startups take, is to pursue the thing whole-heartedly, foregoing such things as a simultaneous academic career. I find it extremely difficult to believe that any couple can, at the very same time, (1) run a successful manufacturing business, and (2) seriously pursue University degrees.

The problem with the article, to my eyes, is that the 'problem' these two are encountering is most likely more to do with their lack of focus, than with their debt load. If I was a bank, I'd not lend these two start-up money if they are doing the business while pursuing degrees, even if they had zero loans already. Why should I have faith in the success of their business if they don't, and want to hedge their bets by pursuing degrees at the same time?

Admittedly, I know nothing of the cupcake-topper business. But I am assuming it is like other businesses in that it takes time, hard work, dedication and money to pursue with success.

[Eddie Teach]

I must admit when i hear students telling me they are majoring in Music, I want to bash their faces in.

Yeah if you want to be a musician you need to get out there and play music.  People in the music business do not care about a degree, only how good you are.

Though I suppose you might need the degree if you want to teach music or maybe in some specialty fields like wanting to be a symphony orchestra director or something.

My brother-in-law majored in music. AFAIK his plan was always to go into construction after college.

[Barrister]

As a pure aside, I wonder why they'd want a laser cutter?  A 3-D printer sounds ideal for their intended purpose and, although they are expensive, they can be had for much much less than $140k.

[Jacob]

And there's nothing at all illogical about pointing out that a lot of participants means a crowded market, which makes success harder.

Who said it was illogical?

[Malthus]

As a pure aside, I wonder why they'd want a laser cutter?  A 3-D printer sounds ideal for their intended purpose and, although they are expensive, they can be had for much much less than $140k.

Do they say how much the cutter costs? The 140 K is the amount of their debt, which they say prevents them from getting a business loan.

[Barrister]

As a pure aside, I wonder why they'd want a laser cutter?  A 3-D printer sounds ideal for their intended purpose and, although they are expensive, they can be had for much much less than $140k.

Do they say how much the cutter costs? The 140 K is the amount of their debt, which they say prevents them from getting a business loan.

My mistake.

[Jacob]

As a pure aside, I wonder why they'd want a laser cutter?  A 3-D printer sounds ideal for their intended purpose and, although they are expensive, they can be had for much much less than $140k.

Do they say how much the cutter costs? The 140 K is the amount of their debt, which they say prevents them from getting a business loan.

I think I introduced that error to the thread. Mea culpa 

[Admiral Yi]

Who said it was illogical?

No one.  You said it was funny.  I assumed you found it funny because it did not make sense.

[Jacob]

Who said it was illogical?

No one.  You said it was funny.  I assumed you found it funny because it did not make sense.

So many assumptions flying around in this thread

I found it funny because as far as I'm concerned you need to do your due diligence and understand the particulars of your field to develop a good business plan. I thought it ironic that someone would dismiss a business plan without knowing any of the particulars of either the plan nor the field.

It's not that funny anymore, though 

[crazy canuck]

Now this thread is getting funny.

[Malthus]

My assumptions, based on the very few facts available in the article, are that this couple are not really serious about pursuing the business and have limited information concerning the actual costs and profits involved in doing it on their own outside of the University setting - and that these are more serious barriers to their success than their student loans.