Forget the F-35 - should Canada re-develop the Avro Arrow

[grumbler]

And it is important to try and make some kind of assessment about how much "better" the F-35 is compared to the Super Hornet, because the costs are dramatically different.  According to wiki (I know, I know, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time researching this) the Super Hornet has a per-unit cost of $67 million, while the estimates for the F-35 are $195 to $236 million (depending on model).  Thats three to four times the cost.  You don't want to have a situation where we have the finest aircraft going, but too few of them to actually make any difference.

I think that the F-35 costing twice as much per plane of a flyaway basis is probably the better yardstick.  The $236 million isn't flyaway cost, and the $195 flyaway cost is for early/small production run aircraft, which Canada won't be in on.

I don't know how maintenance cost/year/plane is going to shake out between the two birds, but the F-35 is almost certainly going to cost more, because of the cost to maintain its stealth coating.

So, cost-effectiveness is a real issue.

[Barrister]

If we change airplanes right now, whatever r&d costs we sunk in the F-35 program, we lose it. If we buy a plane built elsewhere in the world, aside security risks of buying a Russian or Chinese aircraft, we have to consider the jobs we lose by not going forward.

Now, the costs for the F-35 seems to be rising a tad.  But maybe there's something to do about it.

Nobody is talking about buying russian or chinese aircraft.  If we were going to get crazy we might buy French or Swedish jets, but thats about it (I think the Eurofighter isn't suitable because it lacks ground attack capabilities, but that could be wrong).

[grumbler]

If we change airplanes right now, whatever r&d costs we sunk in the F-35 program, we lose it.

Canada cannot recover sunk costs no matter what the decision, so should ignore sunk costs in making the decision.

[mongers]

If we change airplanes right now, whatever r&d costs we sunk in the F-35 program, we lose it.

Canada cannot recover sunk costs no matter what the decision, so should ignore sunk costs in making the decision.

Yeah, Canada should just bite the bullet and buy the latest expansion of WiF.

[Viking]

If we change airplanes right now, whatever r&d costs we sunk in the F-35 program, we lose it.

Canada cannot recover sunk costs no matter what the decision, so should ignore sunk costs in making the decision.

Yeah, Canada should just bite the bullet and buy the latest expansion of WiF.

Khaki in Flames 



all those black on blue CW Ships will now be legible.

[viper37]

Nobody is talking about buying russian or chinese aircraft.

you'd be surprised...  Muclair seems to have more than a few brain cells active, but I can't say the same for his supporters.

If we were going to get crazy we might buy French or Swedish jets, but thats about it (I think the Eurofighter isn't suitable because it lacks ground attack capabilities, but that could be wrong).

Imho, the Rafale wouldn't be suitable for Canada's need, but I might be wrong.

[mongers]

Canada should just get some good rifles and decent bayonets and be done with it; it's what they do best. 

[Ed Anger]

Canada should just get some good rifles and decent bayonets and be done with it; it's what they do best.

And sniper rifles. Princess Pat snipers.

[Ideologue]

It pisses me off that there's no left pro-military camp.

We can send you Ide.

Overhere he's far right.

Then what are Beeb and CC?

[katmai]

To the left of Neil.

[CountDeMoney]

Khaki in Flames 

all those black on blue CW Ships will now be legible.

Should've done that years ago.

[crazy canuck]

To the left of Neil.

[garbon]

To the left of Neil.

[Barrister]

So apparently the Conservatives are going to scrap the F-35 purchase any day now.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/12/06/michael-den-tandt-conservatives-pull-the-ejector-seat-on-f-35-purchase/

[Grey Fox]

Boats, Boats! Ships! Destroyer! Icebreakers! Nuclear Power!