Discipline in the Military, What is it like these days ?

[Siege]

Meh, I always hear a NCOs and Officers bitch about how "new" Soldiers suck, but they never then additionally talk about real solutions and doing something about it. Maybe they should look in the mirror.

Meh, lot of bitching, ain't ya?
Joe always talk shit about his chain of command. Always.
Reality is, the new generation of soldiers is extremely self-centric, individualistic, and short-sighted. Gone are the patriotism and motivation of the generation that enlisted after 9/11. These new kids are not motivated to deploy, engage and destroy the enemies of the United States in close combat. They are just trying to go to college, and when they enlisted the only MOS avalaible was infantry.

This is the me-me generation. They want time off, and don't enjoy combat training, let alone combat service. They want to train to a time, instead of training to an standard.

Keep in mind though, that I am generalizing. A few of the kids are surprisingly good, and can be trained to excel in combat. But the large mayority are cry-babys that can't expend a night in the woods without bitching about "The Army".
The thing is, this is Obama's Army. The budget cut-off have had a massive impact on training. Getting training time on the ranges, and bullets to shoot, ain't easy no more. Just to give you a simple example, making the reservation for my last sniper range, I was told by Brigade that I could only have 300 rounds per month for all my 6 shooters. That's 50 rounds a piece. Per month. Do you think I can train snipers up to standard like this?

Then there is the whole "no hazing" policy that have been imposed on us for the last year or so. Hazing is bad for morale, I do not tolerate hazing among my soldiers. The problem is, that somebody up there have changed the definition of hazing, and now most NCOs cannot even smoke their privates. I make my privates do push ups when I think they deserve it, but they know I can not given them an smoke session for an hour like it used to be. Somebody in Washington have confused hazing with corrective training. Hazing is smoking the soldiers without reason, corrective training, is smoking the soldiers to fix a problem. If you don't like doing push ups, you shouldn't have joined the Army.

There are always some good young Soldiers that you can take under your wing, mentor, promote, and start a real good culture change of resilience, competence, and duty. It spreads. But these good kids will quickly become corrupted, impregnated, or disillusioned within a year or two if the Sergeants and Lieutenants above them are too busy drinking, trying to get laid, or creating busywork/paperwork.

Yes, there are bad NCOs and Officers in the Army. Some. Not that many, at least in my unit. That's why I train my soldiers in leadership as well as in infantry stuff. The simplest concept of leadership, Be, Know, Do, so when I take them to the promotions board and they become Sergeants, they know what the fuck they are doing.
Said that, I find that last part that I quoted from you kind of weird. Let me explain:

Busywork/paperwork: I can't believe this part. I have never known an NCO that prefers to do paperwork over training on the field. All NCOs have to do paperwork, from counseling, to just maintaing the MAL (materiel allowance list), to other shit like guard rosters and so on. Officers do a LOT of paperwork that they are rquired to do, but in the end, don't forget that NCOs are the ones that train and educate the soldiers. I was really bafled by your estatement.

Too busy drinking, trying to get laid: Yes, we all do this, and its fine as long as is done off-duty. I don't get what you are bitching about here. Do you want NCOs to not drink and get laid? Off time is Off time, and after training hard, I give as much as I can to my soldiers. By the way, all NCOs and Officers I know do work far more hours than lower enlisted soldiers. Most of the time I release my soldiers for the day and THEN I do my paperwork.

But these good kids will quickly become corrupted, impregnated, or disillusioned: Yes, this is true, all that happens to our soldiers is the NCOs responsability. I agree. However, do you think I never had a shitty NCO or Officer? Most of my leadership have been rather good, but some have been rather bad. Do you think these bad leaders made me a bad soldier, making me "corrupted, impregnated, or disillusioned"? Fuck no. I'm here for the fight, and NOBODY can take away my motivation. So, blaming everything on the leadership, is another sign of the Me-Me generation, unable to accept responsability for their own actions. I tell you something about soldiers, there are 4 types of soldiers:

1- Able and Willing
2- Unable and Willing
3- Able and Unwilling
4- Unable and Unwilling

The Able and Willing is money. That's the kind of soldier I strive to create and/or atract to my squad from other squads because my squad is the best.
The Unable and Willing is the good guy that is new and doesnt know whta the fuck he is doing but is willing to learn. I can work with him. I can train him and mentor him until he goes up and become Able and Willing.
The Able and Unwilling is the shitbag, that been in the Army for a while, but doesn;t matter what you do he is unwillimg to play the game. I hate this kind of dude and I do everything in my power to get him out of the Army.
The Unablr and Unwilling is Jaron, he ain;t in this man's Army.

[b[v and start a real good culture change of resilience, competence, and duty
I laughed at this one for a while. Resiliance? What, somebody got Icebergs, think traps, too much ctastrophic thinking?
Come on man, most guys I know laugh at the MRT (military resiliance training).

Point is man, joe is ALWAYS going to bitch, no matter what you do, and there is a lot you cna do to train good soldiers, but a lot also depends of the kind of guys we get.

[Valmy]

The thing is, this is Obama's Army. The budget cut-off have had a massive impact on training. Getting training time on the ranges, and bullets to shoot, ain't easy no more. Just to give you a simple example, making the reservation for my last sniper range, I was told by Brigade that I could only have 300 rounds per month for all my 6 shooters. That's 50 rounds a piece. Per month. Do you think I can train snipers up to standard like this?

Wait the military spends hundreds of billions a year and they cannot even afford bullets for training?  The Feds truly amaze me.  I guess all that money is needed for pork contracts.

[Tonitrus]

That's because military budgeting is retarded.

Real life example:

- WTF, we can't get scrape together enough pennies for a freakin' toner cartridge for the printer/copier, so we have to leech off someone else's office for a couple months?

A couple months pass...

- HAI GUYZ, we got a few thousand we have to spend before the end of the fiscal quarter in a couple days...so besides that toner, who needs a 47" plasma TV in their office?

[Ed Anger]

As a taxpayer, you should get by with a Emerson 19" tv.

[Neil]

That's because military budgeting is retarded.

Real life example:

- WTF, we can't get scrape together enough pennies for a freakin' toner cartridge for the printer/copier, so we have to leech off someone else's office for a couple months?

A couple months pass...

- HAI GUYZ, we got a few thousand we have to spend before the end of the fiscal quarter in a couple days...so besides that toner, who needs a 47" plasma TV in their office?

Just the fact that the Air Force is an independent service is a waste of money.

[CountDeMoney]

That's because military budgeting is retarded.

That sounds like the Federal government in general.

I remember calling one of my friends in the FBI;  he and his other SAs were looking for clip art online for a good eagle to put on the business cards they were making with a laser printer, because the FBI wouldn't issue them any. 

[FunkMonk]

That's because military budgeting is retarded.

Real life example:

- WTF, we can't get scrape together enough pennies for a freakin' toner cartridge for the printer/copier, so we have to leech off someone else's office for a couple months?

A couple months pass...

- HAI GUYZ, we got a few thousand we have to spend before the end of the fiscal quarter in a couple days...so besides that toner, who needs a 47" plasma TV in their office?

This is so true it still fucking gives me night terrors, almost a year after I got out.

[CountDeMoney]

This is so true it still fucking gives me night terrors, almost a year after I got out.

It's kinda like that with the private sector, too;  thing is, when we had money left over at the end of the year, we did shit like buying ATVs for the Natural Resources Police. 
Bought the BPD a whole fucking horse for the Mounted Unit once.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The thing is, this is Obama's Army. The budget cut-off have had a massive impact on training. Getting training time on the ranges, and bullets to shoot, ain't easy no more. Just to give you a simple example, making the reservation for my last sniper range, I was told by Brigade that I could only have 300 rounds per month for all my 6 shooters. That's 50 rounds a piece. Per month. Do you think I can train snipers up to standard like this?

Wait the military spends hundreds of billions a year and they cannot even afford bullets for training?  The Feds truly amaze me.  I guess all that money is needed for pork contracts.

I remember, back in Germany 1966, my father got home and started raging about the government and its mindbogglingly silly budgeting. At the time he was in 32 Engineer regiment which supported the 7th armoured division. To save money the tankers had been told to only shoot one round a year 

[Darth Wagtaros]

This is so true it still fucking gives me night terrors, almost a year after I got out.

Bought the BPD a whole fucking horse for the Mounted Unit once.

Why would they have bought half a fucking horse for the Mounted Unit?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The thing is, this is Obama's Army. The budget cut-off have had a massive impact on training. Getting training time on the ranges, and bullets to shoot, ain't easy no more. Just to give you a simple example, making the reservation for my last sniper range, I was told by Brigade that I could only have 300 rounds per month for all my 6 shooters. That's 50 rounds a piece. Per month. Do you think I can train snipers up to standard like this?

Wait the military spends hundreds of billions a year and they cannot even afford bullets for training?  The Feds truly amaze me.  I guess all that money is needed for pork contracts.

I remember, back in Germany 1966, my father got home and started raging about the government and its mindbogglingly silly budgeting. At the time he was in 32 Engineer regiment which supported the 7th armoured division. To save money the tankers had been told to only shoot one round a year 

hehe, reminds me of a story my parents tell. Also in Germany. Late 70s, early 80s. They were doing combat training as the army is supposed to do at times. As cost-savings measure they weren't issued ammo but told to say pew-pew-pew to simulate gunfire. As you can see from miles away lots of cheating went on during that exercise.

[Malthus]

Looks like they already exist:

http://www.holyblossom.org/community-groups/young-adults/

That's the website of the temple I went to as a kid. Wierd. 

[garbon]

Looks like they already exist:

http://www.holyblossom.org/community-groups/young-adults/

That's the website of the temple I went to as a kid. Wierd. 

[11B4V]

Old gen usually thinks the new gen isnt worth a shit. Only time will tell. 

[The Brain]

Siege is great, I always feel like I get some real insight into combat military from his posts.