Axis of Evil now official

[CountDeMoney]

Anyway I dont think Iran is a threat to the west at all much less a minor threat.  They are a regional threat to other people and they are mad the US, and others, will not let them spread their tentacles.

Disagree.  The moment they develop their rudimentary little weapon, hand it off to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who, with the assistance of Hezbollah, parks it in the middle of downtown Tel Aviv in a rental truck, is as much a threat to the West as it is to Israel.

[Valmy]

Disagree.  The moment they develop their rudimentary little weapon, hand it off to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who, with the assistance of Hezbollah, parks it in the middle of downtown Tel Aviv in a rental truck, is as much a threat to the West as it is to Israel.

That is not their plan though.  They want to dominate the region not commit a national Komikaze attack.

[Razgovory]

Disagree.  The moment they develop their rudimentary little weapon, hand it off to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who, with the assistance of Hezbollah, parks it in the middle of downtown Tel Aviv in a rental truck, is as much a threat to the West as it is to Israel.

That is not their plan though.  They want to dominate the region not commit a national Komikaze attack.

The Problem is that we don't always know who "They" are.  In a country like Iran, competing power blocs can control national assets.  Some mid level idiot can okay such a plan without the rest of the leadership knowing.  With things like the attempted assassination of Israeli agents in Europe and Asia and a plot to kill the Saudi Ambassador I don't think it's clear who calling the shots.  That was the good thing about the Reds.  It was always a top down operation.  Initiative was frowned upon and everyone was to scared to take a shit without orders signed in triplicate.  With Iran, who the knows?

[Josquius]

Anyway I dont think Iran is a threat to the west at all much less a minor threat.  They are a regional threat to other people and they are mad the US, and others, will not let them spread their tentacles.

Agreed.
Stuff about North Korea conquering the world is solidly kept in the realm of fantasy however.
Eurabia nonsense and other Islamophobia though....well a disturbingly large amount of people believe that and see Iran as a chief part of it.

Iran was brought into the picture in the first post.

Tyr, you wouldn't get dog piled if you didn't say such silly things.  You aren't as bad as MS and Marty, but God, sometimes you can be dense.

People in glass houses....

But what I said was not silly. Whether North Korea was ever of communist ideology/when it stopped being such is up for debate (it was never technically a communist state but the world tends not to care about such distinctions as communist ideology and actual communism. The word has changed and its established terminology these days so meh). Right now though it isn't communist in any sense of the word.

[sbr]

Maybe if you dig deeper you will be able to get out of that hole you are in.

[Admiral Yi]

But what I said was not silly. Whether North Korea was ever of communist ideology/when it stopped being such is up for debate (it was never technically a communist state but the world tends not to care about such distinctions as communist ideology and actual communism. The word has changed and its established terminology these days so meh). Right now though it isn't communist in any sense of the word.

If you'd stopped in your first post with your neo-Troskyite critique of North Korea I for one wouldn't have jumped on you.  It's when you tried to fit your "the US picks fights with poor little countries that just want to be left alone and the evil corporate press whips up the war fever" template on North Korea that you got really silly.

[Razgovory]

I dunno, I find the Neo-Trotyskist thing silly as well.  I find it annoying that some people suggest that we shouldn't judge communism by communist states.  We judge monarchies but what they are in practice, not by some hypothetical kingdom ruled by a perfect individual divinely appointed.

[Josquius]

But what I said was not silly. Whether North Korea was ever of communist ideology/when it stopped being such is up for debate (it was never technically a communist state but the world tends not to care about such distinctions as communist ideology and actual communism. The word has changed and its established terminology these days so meh). Right now though it isn't communist in any sense of the word.

If you'd stopped in your first post with your neo-Troskyite critique of North Korea I for one wouldn't have jumped on you.  It's when you tried to fit your "the US picks fights with poor little countries that just want to be left alone and the evil corporate press whips up the war fever" template on North Korea that you got really silly.

eh?
I didn't say anything like that.  The US totally should be picking on North Korea. It's a bad thing that it isn't doing that very much.
Nothing like a neo-trotskyist critique either except for the irrelevant little brackety ramble.

[Gups]

I dunno, I find the Neo-Trotyskist thing silly as well.  I find it annoying that some people suggest that we shouldn't judge communism by communist states.  We judge monarchies but what they are in practice, not by some hypothetical kingdom ruled by a perfect individual divinely appointed.

I agree that North Korea is pretty scary. It's not a Russian Bear or a Chinese dragon, more a conrenered alley cat with some nasty claws. It won't destroy the west but it can give it a nasty kick in the balls.

But I agree with Tyr that it isn't a communist regime under any reasonable definition of that word. It is a kleptocracy pure and simple.

[The Brain]

North Korea is Communist.

[Razgovory]

I dunno, I find the Neo-Trotyskist thing silly as well.  I find it annoying that some people suggest that we shouldn't judge communism by communist states.  We judge monarchies but what they are in practice, not by some hypothetical kingdom ruled by a perfect individual divinely appointed.

I agree that North Korea is pretty scary. It's not a Russian Bear or a Chinese dragon, more a conrenered alley cat with some nasty claws. It won't destroy the west but it can give it a nasty kick in the balls.

But I agree with Tyr that it isn't a communist regime under any reasonable definition of that word. It is a kleptocracy pure and simple.

I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with a communist regime.

[Neil]

Kleptocracy isn't a very pure or simple term, as it describes a pattern of behavior that is spread across a large number of differing systems of government.  The only thing that the term tells you is that somebody is stealing from the public, and that's true of African warlords just as it is Western politicians.

[Gups]

I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with a communist regime.

You don't see how an ideology aimed at distributing wealth equally might conflict with a system of government aimed at transferring wealth to a small number?

The sole purpose of North Korean policy is to keep the Kim family in power and money. Any ideological label they choose to affix the to the regime is a sham. That they used to call themselves communist 40 years ago is as meaningless as that they still call themselves democratic today.

[Razgovory]

I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with a communist regime.

You don't see how an ideology aimed at distributing wealth equally might conflict with a system of government aimed at transferring wealth to a small number?

The sole purpose of North Korean policy is to keep the Kim family in power and money. Any ideological label they choose to affix the to the regime is a sham. That they used to call themselves communist 40 years ago is as meaningless as that they still call themselves democratic today.

Maybe it's because I'm not European or not a communist, but what I know of communist regimes that doesn't seem to be out of the ordinary.  I think in all communist regimes the governing class lives better then the average person.  That's how it works in practice.

[Gups]

So your definition of a communist regime is that the governing classes live better than the average person?