Quebec Election Thread

[viper37]

I dont understand your point other than you appear to be making a passive aggressive anti monarchy post.

given the behavior of our government, and the support it seems to receive in Canada, it would appear Canadians still do not feel as Canadians (except when we win the hockey gold medal), but British subjects.  There is not even a Canadian nationalism, so it's hard to conceive that there could be a really provincial nationalism, outside of Quebec.

[crazy canuck]

Quebec wasn't there, and no effort were made to reach the Quebec reprensentatives.

Now that is a very selective reading of history.  But then this "insult" allows has been.

[Valmy]

given the behavior of our government, and the support it seems to receive in Canada, it would appear Canadians still do not feel as Canadians (except when we win the hockey gold medal), but British subjects.

This is absolute bullshit so I am not sure why you keep obsessing over it.  No more than Australians think of themselves as British subjects.

[Grallon]

given the behavior of our government, and the support it seems to receive in Canada, it would appear Canadians still do not feel as Canadians (except when we win the hockey gold medal), but British subjects.  There is not even a Canadian nationalism, so it's hard to conceive that there could be a really provincial nationalism, outside of Quebec.

Still trying Viper? *shakes head*  I've given up on these people a long time ago. 


I'll tell you what the Canadian 'identity' is made of: the refusal to be American on one side and the denial of Quebecers' collective identity on the other.  It's pathetic really.  That's why we should separate; not for monetary reasons but to avoid losing our identity and become as amorphous and colorless as they are.




G.

[Malthus]

given the behavior of our government, and the support it seems to receive in Canada, it would appear Canadians still do not feel as Canadians (except when we win the hockey gold medal), but British subjects.  There is not even a Canadian nationalism, so it's hard to conceive that there could be a really provincial nationalism, outside of Quebec.

Still trying Viper? *shakes head*  I've given up on these people a long time ago. 


I'll tell you what the Canadian 'identity' is made of: the refusal to be American on one side and the denial of Quebecers' collective identity on the other.  It's pathetic really.  That's why we should separate; not for monetary reasons but to avoid losing our identity and become as amorphous and colorless as they are.




G.

If you despise us, we must be doing *something* right. 

[Valmy]

Still trying Viper? *shakes head*  I've given up on these people a long time ago.

I guess I feel unconvinced by things that are obviously false.

[Grallon]

I guess I feel unconvinced by things that are obviously false.

It's not so much the details of the arguments as the narrative itself.  If it isn't a deaf dialogue when it comes to this topic I don't know what is.  Witness the smugness of Malthus above!




G.

[Malthus]

I guess I feel unconvinced by things that are obviously false.

It's not so much the details of the arguments as the narrative itself.  If it isn't a deaf dialogue when it comes to this topic I don't know what is.  Witness the smugness of Malthus above!




G.

Dude. My smugness is aimed squarely at your over-the-top hysterically dramatic insults.
Of course, what else could you expect from us "amorphous and colorless" folks? 

[viper37]

Now that is a very selective reading of history.

Ok.  Where was Quebec?  How come they didn't send anyone knocking on their hotel door, yet they managed to reach Saskatchewan's Premier?

[viper37]

That's why we should separate; not for monetary reasons but to avoid losing our identity and become as amorphous and colorless as they are.
G.

we don't need to seperate for that.  We can become amorphous and colorless just as well in an independant country.  In fact, I'm seeing this trend with the montrealization of our medias.  Barely nothing comes from the regions anymore, everything is done in Montreal, and the few things not done there are shunned.  We even blame non Montreal media for last week's shooting.  So, colorless, we are becoming.

[viper37]

Of course, what else could you expect from us "amorphous and colorless" folks? 

it fits the stereotype of the American loud mouth and the über polite Canadian.  It's nothing new or even contained to Grallon, you know.  I remember Due South, it played kinda heavily on those stereotypes, and it was a Canadian show, IIRC.

[Barrister]

Now that is a very selective reading of history.

Ok.  Where was Quebec?  How come they didn't send anyone knocking on their hotel door, yet they managed to reach Saskatchewan's Premier?

But that's process, and it's stuff that happened 30 years ago.  You still haven't convinced me that anything actually contained in the 1982 Constitution was in any way contrary to Quebec's interests.

[Malthus]

Of course, what else could you expect from us "amorphous and colorless" folks? 

it fits the stereotype of the American loud mouth and the über polite Canadian.  It's nothing new or even contained to Grallon, you know.  I remember Due South, it played kinda heavily on those stereotypes, and it was a Canadian show, IIRC.

It's very silly to tell people to their face that you actually take absurd stereotypes seriously - much less that you are basing your whole political world-view on it. 

[sarcasm] But then, it is of course well known that all Quebec people are by nature incapable of logical reasoning. After all, Don Cherry-one of those uber-polite Canadians- said so, so it must be true.  [/sarcasm] 

[crazy canuck]

Now that is a very selective reading of history.

Ok.  Where was Quebec?  How come they didn't send anyone knocking on their hotel door, yet they managed to reach Saskatchewan's Premier?

Quebec and Canada made a side deal to repatriate the constitution as is and put the contentious bits to a referendum, effectively undercutting the position of the other premiers.  Why Levesque agreed to such a thing is a bit of a mystery.  But having stabbed the other provinces in the back (to use the terminology popular in Quebec) Levesque retired to his hotel.

The agreement the other provinces finally cobbled together in his absence was largely the same that NFLD had brought to the conference.  No real surprises there.  Levesque couldnt be reached (or did not want to be reached after what he had done...) but was told the first thing the next morning.  He then stormed out.

One reasonable inference to draw is that he had a couple motivations for doing so.  One he realized he was not going to get his way and that it was much more politically advantageous for him to play the victim then to further negotiate - which could easily have been done.  Another possible motivation is that he realized his "stab in the back" had not worked and he needed to save face.   Probably a combination of the two.

[viper37]

But that's process, and it's stuff that happened 30 years ago.  You still haven't convinced me that anything actually contained in the 1982 Constitution was in any way contrary to Quebec's interests.

We lose stuff we already had while the provinces negotiate a seperate agreement with the Feds instead of sticking to the current deal, but that's not enough for you.  I'm sorry, but nothing I can say will change your mind on this.  You think you have enough power as it is, we don't.  If it was just that, it would be all and well.  But unfortunately, the other provinces will do their best to prevent Quebec from gaining more autonomy just because they don't want any.

Fortunatley, even Tom Flanagan agrees that some powers should be left to the provincial authority, namely unemployement insurance in this case.