Skeletal Remains Of An Entire Army Found In An Ancient Mass Grave In Denmark

[HVC]

As opposed to all the real religions that weren't invented at all.

Tradition lends respect to the other religions. Even if the hippie pagans said "we're starting a new religion, wanna join?" they're be ok, but they're trying to tie themselves to old religions and practices and pawning it off as authentic. That's just worthy of derision.

[Razgovory]

These poems were not really "holy texts" in the sense we think of Christians and the Bible.  They were closer to entertainment.

So you know nothing about them? That's what I'm getting from this statement.

No, viking covers this fairly well.  I wouldn't go so far as to say they are a guide as to what to believe.  They are simply stories where the gods are characters.  The actions of the gods may change dramatically depending on location.  For instance, the story we have about the death of Balder is from Icelandic Christians.  There is a few scraps of a story from Denmark that also covers the the death of Balder and is completely different.  This indicates these stories really weren't doctrines, they were just stories they told to entertain.  You shouldn't think of their religion as moralizing religion like say Christianity or Islam.  It was a propitiatory religion.  You would barter with the gods for something material like victory in battle or wealth.  It was closer to what we think of as magic and superstition.  Avoiding bad luck and making sacrifices to bribe the gods.

[Darth Wagtaros]

As opposed to all the real religions that weren't invented at all.

Tradition lends respect to the other religions. Even if the hippie pagans said "we're starting a new religion, wanna join?" they're be ok, but they're trying to tie themselves to old religions and practices and pawning it off as authentic. That's just worthy of derision.

Yes. When I pointed out something like that to one of my students, who is a Wiccan, he had this whole story about Druids going to Ireland after the Roman invasion and then lying low, eventually pretending to be Christian monks, and keepign the Old Ways safe and secret until they could be safely practiced once again.

If they just said, "We feel this is right, and it is new" I'd be less in clined to laugh.

[Razgovory]

As opposed to all the real religions that weren't invented at all.

Invented suggests a conscious attempt to create, as such I doubt most religions were "invented".

[Maximus]

I think the basis of the criticism is insincerity, not disutility.

If utility exists why is sincerity required?

Alternately, how does invention imply insincerity?

[dps]

These poems were not really "holy texts" in the sense we think of Christians and the Bible.  They were closer to entertainment.

So you know nothing about them? That's what I'm getting from this statement.

No, viking covers this fairly well.  I wouldn't go so far as to say they are a guide as to what to believe.  They are simply stories where the gods are characters.  The actions of the gods may change dramatically depending on location.  For instance, the story we have about the death of Balder is from Icelandic Christians.  There is a few scraps of a story from Denmark that also covers the the death of Balder and is completely different.  This indicates these stories really weren't doctrines, they were just stories they told to entertain.  You shouldn't think of their religion as moralizing religion like say Christianity or Islam.  It was a propitiatory religion.  You would barter with the gods for something material like victory in battle or wealth.  It was closer to what we think of as magic and superstition.  Avoiding bad luck and making sacrifices to bribe the gods.

A few years back I happened to be doing some reading about Norse mythology, and I was surprised about how little we actually know about their beliefs.    Certainly I had been somewhat aware that less was known about their pantheon and practices, than say, Greco-Roman mythology, but I hadn't realized just how much less.  Plus, while a great deal of what we know of Greco-Roman mythology is from more-or-less contemporaneous sources, much of what little we know of Norse mythology is from sources that come after the Norse themselves had abandoned their traditional beliefs and converted to Christianity.

[Razgovory]

I think the basis of the criticism is insincerity, not disutility.

If utility exists why is sincerity required?

Alternately, how does invention imply insincerity?

Hard to believe a story if you just invented it, doesn't it?

[Darth Wagtaros]

I don't think they were big on writing stuff down.  Oral tradition is ephemeral.  Also, there were several different cultures and religions involved, if I'm not mistaken. They were all kind of lumped together after the fact.

[Maximus]

Hard to believe a story if you just invented it, doesn't it?

What stories are you referring to? Can you give us an example?

[dps]

I think the basis of the criticism is insincerity, not disutility.

If utility exists why is sincerity required?

Alternately, how does invention imply insincerity?

Light bulbs are insincere--they were invented by Edison.  Or someone he stole them from.

[Razgovory]

Hard to believe a story if you just invented it, doesn't it?

What stories are you referring to? Can you give us an example?

Any story.  If you make up a story about where you were last night, or how Druids disguise themselves as Catholic monks and kept their religion secret, or that space aliens threw people into a volcano a billion years ago, or how the spirits of Vikings told you to reform their religion you wouldn't believe your own story would you?  After all, you just made it up.

[Razgovory]

These poems were not really "holy texts" in the sense we think of Christians and the Bible.  They were closer to entertainment.

So you know nothing about them? That's what I'm getting from this statement.

No, viking covers this fairly well.  I wouldn't go so far as to say they are a guide as to what to believe.  They are simply stories where the gods are characters.  The actions of the gods may change dramatically depending on location.  For instance, the story we have about the death of Balder is from Icelandic Christians.  There is a few scraps of a story from Denmark that also covers the the death of Balder and is completely different.  This indicates these stories really weren't doctrines, they were just stories they told to entertain.  You shouldn't think of their religion as moralizing religion like say Christianity or Islam.  It was a propitiatory religion.  You would barter with the gods for something material like victory in battle or wealth.  It was closer to what we think of as magic and superstition.  Avoiding bad luck and making sacrifices to bribe the gods.

A few years back I happened to be doing some reading about Norse mythology, and I was surprised about how little we actually know about their beliefs.    Certainly I had been somewhat aware that less was known about their pantheon and practices, than say, Greco-Roman mythology, but I hadn't realized just how much less.  Plus, while a great deal of what we know of Greco-Roman mythology is from more-or-less contemporaneous sources, much of what little we know of Norse mythology is from sources that come after the Norse themselves had abandoned their traditional beliefs and converted to Christianity.

It's shocking how little we know about Greco-Roman mythology.  It tends to come from only a few sources.  And some sources like Ovid didn't even believe them.  We know even less how their religions actually worked or how religious authorities viewed the mythology.

[Maximus]

Any story.  If you make up a story about where you were last night, or how Druids disguise themselves as Catholic monks and kept their religion secret, or that space aliens threw people into a volcano a billion years ago, or how the spirits of Vikings told you to reform their religion you wouldn't believe your own story would you?  After all, you just made it up.

That is true. Now back to the discussion we were having: How does inventing a religion imply insincerity about it?

[Viking]

I think the basis of the criticism is insincerity, not disutility.

If utility exists why is sincerity required?

Alternately, how does invention imply insincerity?

Light bulbs are insincere--they were invented by Edison.  Or someone he stole them from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

In addressing the question of who invented the incandescent lamp, historians Robert Friedel and Paul Israel[3] list 22 inventors of incandescent lamps prior to Joseph Swan and Thomas Edison. They conclude that Edison's version was able to outstrip the others because of a combination of three factors: an effective incandescent material, a higher vacuum than others were able to achieve (by use of the Sprengel pump) and a high resistance that made power distribution from a centralized source economically viable.

[Siege]

You shouldn't think of their religion as moralizing religion like say Christianity or Islam.  It was a propitiatory religion.  You would barter with the gods for something material like victory in battle or wealth.  It was closer to what we think of as magic and superstition.  Avoiding bad luck and making sacrifices to bribe the gods.

This is the way all religions were prior to Moshe.