Europa Universalis IV announced

[Razgovory]

In EU1 there was strait-up genocide.  Not just in North America but in places like Vietnam.  All coastal provinces between Iran and China could be cleared out.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Yeah, cultural conversion always struck me as ethnic cleansing (which doesn't have to involve killing).  I'm surprised that Paradox would put it in as a mechanic given how careful they are with such stuff, but then again, it's not like you can bring it up on the forum to make them aware of it without getting color-fonted.

iirc, the rational is that cultural conversion deals with the upper classes of the province rather than with the bulk of people. That upper stratum is usually easier to convert, both with friendly and not so friendly measures.
At least that is how I seem to remember paradox explaining it

[Valmy]

In EU1 there was strait-up genocide.  Not just in North America but in places like Vietnam.  All coastal provinces between Iran and China could be cleared out.

Yeah that was not very realistic. Every place out of Europe was a little underdeveloped in that game. Especially India.

Still fun though. I will always remember it fondly.

[Sheilbh]

It makes a lot of very good and fair points - and I think it's really valid to look at this because as he says I'm aware of history courses using EU IV specifically as a tool for teaching plus as it says many people get their interest from the games and it does have a "theory" of history which is worth actually thinking through.

[Barrister]

Yeah, cultural conversion always struck me as ethnic cleansing (which doesn't have to involve killing).  I'm surprised that Paradox would put it in as a mechanic given how careful they are with such stuff, but then again, it's not like you can bring it up on the forum to make them aware of it without getting color-fonted.

IIRC...

EU1 didn't have cultural conversion, at least not directly.  But damned if players didn't want it.  There was an "exploit" where you'd besiege a province so mercilessly you'd knock the population down to colony sized - and then you'd just send a new colonist.  So instead of having 'cultural genocide', players were conducted literal genocide.

[Valmy]

Ah the good old days

[Josquius]

I remember when I was playing eu2 for the first time.
After a try and fail game of learning I played as England.
Didn't explore.
Eventually at some point won a war with Spain and was given some random islands and figured out how to do exploring.
I remember playing the game with an atlas next to me to figure out where to go.
Forget history. I learned a lot of geography from this game.
To this day when I meet people, particularly Germans, and ask where they're from if it's a historic city I get it.
Subsequent renaming over history confuses this a lot.

[Valmy]

Yeah I remember having a conversation with a Turk and he said he was from Karaman and I was like "ah yeah I know where that is. I hear the Taurus mountains are lovely"

I had to restrain myself asking him why their flag looked like Israels in EU2.

[Habbaku]

Yeah I remember having a conversation with a Turk and he said he was from Karaman and I was like "ah yeah I know where that is. I hear the Taurus mountains are lovely"

I had to restrain myself asking him why their flag looked like Israels in EU2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamanids#Flag

[DGuller]

I just checked the definition of "ethnic cleansing", and turns out that it does require at least a little bit of killing.     For some reason I thought it included the coercive but non-lethal methods of destroying a culture.

[crazy canuck]

I just checked the definition of "ethnic cleansing", and turns out that it does require at least a little bit of killing.     For some reason I thought it included the coercive but non-lethal methods of destroying a culture.

Did you think cleansing meant giving access to public bath houses? 

[Syt]

So the DLC added the "pillage capital" decision to peace treaties. The idea is that you can grow your country vertically through war. You take development from a foreign capital and add it to your own.

Someone on the forums asked, "So, what is this supposed to represent, historically? How does looting another capital (say, Paris) increase infrastructure etc. in my capital of London?" People point at loot, but others (IMHO rightly) reply that this would be represented by gold.

[Threviel]

The lions of St Mark?

That's just a ridiculous change.

[Maladict]

So the DLC added the "pillage capital" decision to peace treaties. The idea is that you can grow your country vertically through war. You take development from a foreign capital and add it to your own.

Someone on the forums asked, "So, what is this supposed to represent, historically? How does looting another capital (say, Paris) increase infrastructure etc. in my capital of London?" People point at loot, but others (IMHO rightly) reply that this would be represented by gold.

Gold yes, prestige definitely, maybe even stability. But not development, though I agree the looted capital should suffer a loss of development.

[Sheilbh]

So the DLC added the "pillage capital" decision to peace treaties. The idea is that you can grow your country vertically through war. You take development from a foreign capital and add it to your own.

Someone on the forums asked, "So, what is this supposed to represent, historically? How does looting another capital (say, Paris) increase infrastructure etc. in my capital of London?" People point at loot, but others (IMHO rightly) reply that this would be represented by gold.

I mean maybe Napoleon plundering Italy?

I can see it linking to prestige or gold.