The State of Affairs in Russia

[Tamas]

a NATO casus belli against Russia.

But you surely must see this is nonense? A Russian attack on Ukraine would not mean nuclear armageddon, so it is far, far, far more feasible than a NATO attack on Russia.

[Legbiter]

US intelligence says Russia has inserted operatives into Eastern Ukraine with the aim of creating a false flag attack that will justify an attack

US intelligence indicates Russia preparing operation to justify invasion of Ukraine

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/politics/us-intelligence-russia-false-flag/index.html

Russia commentary in the US is a joke.

[DGuller]

Funny that Russians are saying the opposite. They're expecting a false flag chemical attack in eastern Ukraine to justify a NATO casus belli against Russia.

Nothing funny about it.  As I said before, which you interpreted as a shot at Russia but is in fact just a factual observation, Russia mirrors accusations as a default gaslighting tactic, about anything and everything. 

Ukrainians are accusing Russians of being behind the snipers that shot 100 protesters in 2014?  Russia will accuse the protesters of sending snipers as a false flag operation.  It doesn't have to be plausible (yeah, protesters sure have easy access to all the high points to put snipers on so that they could shoot their own), the point is to muddy the discourse so that black and white facts become "he said, she said".  It works well enough, so why stray from the winning formula?

[Gaijin de Moscu]

On secret service collab between Russia and the US: on a tip off from their US colleagues, the Russian law enforcement has arrested a 14-men Russian hacker group REvil. A satisfying video at the link:

https://m.tvzvezda.ru/news/2022114169-KH0Zz.html

The police found wads of cash (over a million in USD), tons of crypto, 20 elite cars etc. The group had been targeting foreigners, mostly Americans.

[Gaijin de Moscu]

Funny that Russians are saying the opposite. They're expecting a false flag chemical attack in eastern Ukraine to justify a NATO casus belli against Russia.

Nothing funny about it.  As I said before, which you interpreted as a shot at Russia but is in fact just a factual observation, Russia mirrors accusations as a default gaslighting tactic, about anything and everything. 

Ukrainians are accusing Russians of being behind the snipers that shot 100 protesters in 2014?  Russia will accuse the protesters of sending snipers as a false flag operation.  It doesn't have to be plausible (yeah, protesters sure have easy access to all the high points to put snipers on so that they could shoot their own), the point is to muddy the discourse so that black and white facts become "he said, she said".  It works well enough, so why stray from the winning formula?

"Funny" is a figure of speech. I find nothing funny about the current situation.

On mirroring accusations... it goes both ways. You choose to see one side of it, I choose the other. We can talk for many pages funding credible examples illustrating both points of view.

[Gaijin de Moscu]

a NATO casus belli against Russia.

But you surely must see this is nonense? A Russian attack on Ukraine would not mean nuclear armageddon, so it is far, far, far more feasible than a NATO attack on Russia.

The entire situation is nonsensical.

I still don't see why Russia would invade Ukraine. Apart from Russia being a comic book villain who needs no motivation to act, I just don't see why it would happen.

[Valmy]

Why would Russia invade Ukraine? Because Putin lives in his own fantasy world, where the Soviet Union did nothing wrong and its disintegration was the greatest catastrophe in history, and where Ukrainians are not an actual separate people but just Russians with a funny accent. Some people keep assuming that Putin is a rational actor, when there are plenty of indications (based on what Putin himself has said) that he's not.

I'm sorry, but if this is the level of western strategy planning, we're in trouble.

Oh is Finland a western country and do its citizens speak for western strategic planning now? I am never quite clear on where Finland stands in the whole Eastern Euros vs Western Euros thing.

[Valmy]

The entire situation is nonsensical.

It sure as shit is.

I still don't see why Russia would invade Ukraine. Apart from Russia being a comic book villain who needs no motivation to act, I just don't see why it would happen.

As for why Russia would want to invade Ukraine beats the fuck out of me. Seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. But hey they have already done it once in defiance of their own sworn oath to honor Ukraine's borders and in a way that seems to me to encourage nuclear proliferation so who knows what dumbass shit Russia might do in the future?

[DGuller]

On mirroring accusations... it goes both ways. You choose to see one side of it, I choose the other. We can talk for many pages funding credible examples illustrating both points of view.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Gaijin de Moscu]

On mirroring accusations... it goes both ways. You choose to see one side of it, I choose the other. We can talk for many pages funding credible examples illustrating both points of view.

Thank you for proving my point.

And you proving mine.

Both sides have zero trust to each other. This exact point of the West mirroring Russian accusations (and projecting its intentions onto Russia) is very popular in Russia these days.

Some day, this mutual demonisation must stop.

[PJL]

I guess Gaijin de Moscu is one of the secret Russian operatives working in social media to further Russian propaganda. Funny how he suddenly re-appeared recently. I wonder why...

[DGuller]

And you proving mine.

Both sides have zero trust to each other. This exact point of the West mirroring Russian accusations (and projecting its intentions onto Russia) is very popular in Russia these days.

Some day, this mutual demonisation must stop.

Sure, "mutual".    "Nazis and Jews should stop this mutual demonization". I've actually had the same thought as PJL just now.

[Valmy]

I guess Gaijin de Moscu is one of the secret Russian operatives working in social media to further Russian propaganda. Funny how he suddenly re-appeared recently. I wonder why...

Damn. We are getting paranoid in our old age.

And hey even if he is, so what? What harm can he do here?

[PJL]

I guess Gaijin de Moscu is one of the secret Russian operatives working in social media to further Russian propaganda. Funny how he suddenly re-appeared recently. I wonder why...

Damn. We are getting paranoid in our old age.

And hey even if he is, so what? What harm can he do here?

Not much, other than time & energy being wasted in trying to counter his posts. I suggest we treat him like we should any troll, by ignoring him.

[DGuller]

Not much, other than time & energy being wasted in trying to counter his posts. I suggest we treat him like we should any troll, by ignoring him.

Agreed.