Greg Ousley Is Sorry for Killing His Parents. Is That Enough?

[Syt]

What is the point of keeping a guy with almost no chance of recidivism, who everyone knows is now  good person behind bars for another ~7 years minimum?

And if in 10 years he snaps again and kills his future wife and newborn kid in cold blood?

Then we should test everyone for possibilities of mental breakdowns and lock up those where we find that they may commit violent crimes in ten years.

[Malthus]

He should get leniency because he's an orphan.

[/chutzpah] 

[garbon]

What is the point of keeping a guy with almost no chance of recidivism, who everyone knows is now  good person behind bars for another ~7 years minimum?

And if in 10 years he snaps again and kills his future wife and newborn kid in cold blood?

Then we should test everyone for possibilities of mental breakdowns and lock up those where we find that they may commit violent crimes in ten years.

Because psychiatry is an exact science.

[garbon]

His sister knows him, I bet she has good reasons to refuse to let him walk out. Seems like the kind of person that is utterly instable that in a couple of seconds can go from being the nicest guy ever to an homicidal maniac.

Actually it is his aunt and the writer said in 2009 that none of this family had visited him for a decade.  Seems unlikely that she'd know him well.

[Strix]

His sister knows him, I bet she has good reasons to refuse to let him walk out. Seems like the kind of person that is utterly instable that in a couple of seconds can go from being the nicest guy ever to an homicidal maniac.

Actually it is his aunt and the writer said in 2009 that none of this family had visited him for a decade.  Seems unlikely that she'd know him well.

Duh, he killed his immediate family, so none were left to visit him. 

But seriously, he lacks the socialization skills required to function in society. He learned to be an "adult" during his incarceration which means he has ZERO coping skills for anything beyond an institution. Of course he attended classes, got a GED, and did everything else he did, they all do, there is nothing to do when locked up. It would be interesting to see his actual prison record i.e. how many violations, what meds, where has he been housed, who has visited him, who he calls, etc, and so on. The problem with "model" prisoners is that their risk factor for society is often determined by a flawed system. New York uses a system called COMPAS which relies on age and recent criminal activity as major factors in determining a prisoners post-incarceration risk levels. The major flaw being that someone locked up more than 2+ years is considered "safe" but doesn't consider that the person hasn't had the chance to commit any major crimes.

[sbr]

His sister knows him, I bet she has good reasons to refuse to let him walk out. Seems like the kind of person that is utterly instable that in a couple of seconds can go from being the nicest guy ever to an homicidal maniac.

Actually it is his aunt and the writer said in 2009 that none of this family had visited him for a decade.  Seems unlikely that she'd know him well.

Duh, he killed his immediate family, so none were left to visit him. 

He has 2 sisters and 5 aunts and uncles.

[Barrister]

Homicides by children are some of the most troubling cases you are ever going to find.

I'm pretty sure I've talked about a case I worked on.  16 year old girl stabs mom's boyfriend a dozen times in the chest and back, killing him.  She had no criminal record to speak of.  She was asked so many times it was almost comical whether the boyfriend had abused her - nope.  She just didn't like him, felt he was a leech on the family, and one night just had enough.

I read a fair bit of the original article, but half way through the second page I skipped down to post.  Just because a youth kills doesn't mean they are mentally ill.  And there's nothing to think that this youth was mentally ill either from what I can tell.  Youth brains are just not fully formed - they do not fully appreciate or consider their actions.

In my case, the sentencing judge was faced with the following facts - the youth had practically a zero % chance of recidivism, was a model student, with lots of family support.  There was no mental illness, and nothing to treat.  But the interests of justice demand that something be done.  I do not accept the Martinus position that you shouldn't even bother to try youths below the age of 15 - so murders by 14 year olds should be ignored by the courts?

I did some research for that case.  These kind of cases are rare, but not unheard of.  I found a series of cases of youths taking an extreme response to what to you or I seem like the ordinary problems of growing up.  But then again that's what teenagers often do - blow things up well beyond any sense of proportion.

But neither do I think they should be locked up for 60 years.  That seems completely insane to me.  What possible societal interest is being served by doing so?

And neither do I accept the Neil/Martim position that he's probably so damaged by having spent 20 years behind bars that he souldn't be released.  Hopefully I don't even need to explain my reasoning there.

[Barrister]

His sister knows him, I bet she has good reasons to refuse to let him walk out. Seems like the kind of person that is utterly instable that in a couple of seconds can go from being the nicest guy ever to an homicidal maniac.

Actually it is his aunt and the writer said in 2009 that none of this family had visited him for a decade.  Seems unlikely that she'd know him well.

Duh, he killed his immediate family, so none were left to visit him. 

But seriously, he lacks the socialization skills required to function in society. He learned to be an "adult" during his incarceration which means he has ZERO coping skills for anything beyond an institution. Of course he attended classes, got a GED, and did everything else he did, they all do, there is nothing to do when locked up. It would be interesting to see his actual prison record i.e. how many violations, what meds, where has he been housed, who has visited him, who he calls, etc, and so on. The problem with "model" prisoners is that their risk factor for society is often determined by a flawed system. New York uses a system called COMPAS which relies on age and recent criminal activity as major factors in determining a prisoners post-incarceration risk levels. The major flaw being that someone locked up more than 2+ years is considered "safe" but doesn't consider that the person hasn't had the chance to commit any major crimes.

Well I've prosecuted enough crimes that happened within a correctional institute that I wouldn't say that a person "hasn't had the chance to commit any major crimes"... but I take your point.

But whose fault is it that 'he lacks any coping skills'?  And surely since his parents are dead he's unlikely to kill his parents ever again.  Someone who kills their spouse can always find another partner, and someone who kills their children can always have more children - but given these facts it sure sounds like he's not going to re-offend.

[katmai]

So he should have been put to death. Glad we agree Beeb.

[sbr]

His sister knows him, I bet she has good reasons to refuse to let him walk out. Seems like the kind of person that is utterly instable that in a couple of seconds can go from being the nicest guy ever to an homicidal maniac.

Actually it is his aunt and the writer said in 2009 that none of this family had visited him for a decade.  Seems unlikely that she'd know him well.

But seriously, he lacks the socialization skills required to function in society. He learned to be an "adult" during his incarceration which means he has ZERO coping skills for anything beyond an institution. Of course he attended classes, got a GED, and did everything else he did, they all do, there is nothing to do when locked up. It would be interesting to see his actual prison record i.e. how many violations, what meds, where has he been housed, who has visited him, who he calls, etc, and so on. The problem with "model" prisoners is that their risk factor for society is often determined by a flawed system. New York uses a system called COMPAS which relies on age and recent criminal activity as major factors in determining a prisoners post-incarceration risk levels. The major flaw being that someone locked up more than 2+ years is considered "safe" but doesn't consider that the person hasn't had the chance to commit any major crimes.

He is eligible for release in 2019 and it sounds like he would be released then.

Who or what is served by him staying in prison for another 7 years?  He is going to be freed, and there is little risk of re-offending.  Why not let him out while he is still young enough to try and do something with his life?

[Barrister]

So he should have been put to death. Glad we agree Beeb.

I don't think so katmai.

[katmai]

Then you fail

[Strix]

Well I've prosecuted enough crimes that happened within a correctional institute that I wouldn't say that a person "hasn't had the chance to commit any major crimes"... but I take your point.

But whose fault is it that 'he lacks any coping skills'?  And surely since his parents are dead he's unlikely to kill his parents ever again.  Someone who kills their spouse can always find another partner, and someone who kills their children can always have more children - but given these facts it sure sounds like he's not going to re-offend.

I am glad you understand my point which is why it's important to see his actual prison records. Most crimes committed while incarcerated I consider to be a means of survival rather than rationally deciding to do right or wrong. Which brings me to a point we can both agree upon, the system is to blame for a prisoner's lack of coping skills and the ability to fit into and find a place in society. Most (if not all) prison programs are a joke (at least in NY and NC) designed for a "model" prisoner to check off the boxes required to look good for a parole or early release hearing. This is a failure of society.

However, this "failure" doesn't eliminate the danger presented by offenders re-entering society. If the DoT builds a faulty bridge, do we just say 'oh well" and drive on it hoping it doesn't fall. That appears to be the option many people want to take when it comes to prisoners. I don't like that young kids who have been incarcerated lack the social skills required to function but I cannot fix it in the near future. That means we, as society, must consider it the best option of a set of bad options that we keep these types of offenders locked up until they have served their time.

Prison is a bad place. Kids who grow up in broken homes with issues like poverty, domestic violence, and so on, have a tougher road ahead than kids who grow up in ideal situations. Prison is much worse than a broken home. A prisoner is brutalized over and over, day after day, both personally and by what he/she sees on a daily basis around them. The fact that the prisoner in question was very young makes it that much worse.

He probably will have a better chance at a "life" if released in his 40's than his 30's. Once a person is institutionalized for an extended period (5+ years), the longer the better. 

[Neil]

Why not let him out while he is still young enough to try and do something with his life?

He can't do anything with his life anyways.  He's been to prison, and he's in the US.  What's he going to do?

[Barrister]

Why not let him out while he is still young enough to try and do something with his life?

He can't do anything with his life anyways.  He's been to prison, and he's in the US.  What's he going to do?

What does it matter?  I'm sure he can find some kind of menial employment that keeps him off the street.

Should the US taxpayer continue to pay $20-$30k per year to keep him locked up?