Greg Ousley Is Sorry for Killing His Parents. Is That Enough?

[garbon]

Why not let him out while he is still young enough to try and do something with his life?

He can't do anything with his life anyways.  He's been to prison, and he's in the US.  What's he going to do?

What does it matter?  I'm sure he can find some kind of menial employment that keeps him off the street.

Should the US taxpayer continue to pay $20-$30k per year to keep him locked up?

Well if it was thought he'd commit a crime when he got out, doesn't seem like there'd be much sense in letting him out.

[Neil]

Why not let him out while he is still young enough to try and do something with his life?

He can't do anything with his life anyways.  He's been to prison, and he's in the US.  What's he going to do?

What does it matter?  I'm sure he can find some kind of menial employment that keeps him off the street.

You're wrong.  Even people who haven't been criminals can't get jobs in the US.

Should the US taxpayer continue to pay $20-$30k per year to keep him locked up?

They'll have to no matter what, unless he's killed during his next crime.

[Strix]

He is eligible for release in 2019 and it sounds like he would be released then.

Who or what is served by him staying in prison for another 7 years?  He is going to be freed, and there is little risk of re-offending.  Why not let him out while he is still young enough to try and do something with his life?

I will give you the no non-sense answer.

A prisoner who has been incarcerated for a long period of time and/or during an important developmental stage of their lives becomes institutionalized. They learn to function within a very strict set of norms, mores, and rules that exist in their society i.e. the prison rules and the prisoner's rules. Prisons are very brutal places. The worst of society has been forced together and has evolved their own means of dealing with everyday life. Rape, assaults, murder, theft, bribery, etc, and so on, are as common to them as going to work, the mall, and the club are to everyday people. The longer a person is incarcerated the more the come to accept the "rules" of the greater society, in this case the prison management. As the prisoners age, they are less subject to the drives, goals, and passions that drive younger people.

An older prisoner being release often equates to a sad broken person with little spirit or purpose (beyond everyday survival). They might not have any goals other than not returning to prison.

A younger prisoner being released often equates to an angry person who resents society and what they have been required to do to survive. When their coping skills fail them they return to what they know which is the system of brutality that existed inside prison society. They many times feel they are owed something and therefore will take what they want using the ways and means they understand best.

There are no absolutes in life, so what I described doesn't fit every person. However, when the alternative is society being harmed than it's better to be safe than sorry. The trouble is that many people feel "sorry" for prisoners because deep down inside they understand they have little or no chance of being effected by what the prisoner does to re-offend, so they have no fear of the consequences.

[garbon]

You're wrong.  Even people who haven't been criminals can't get jobs in the US.

Repeating that line ad nauseam doesn't make it true.

[CountDeMoney]

You're wrong.  Even people who haven't been criminals can't get jobs in the US.

Repeating that line ad nauseam doesn't make it true.

I've never been a criminal, and I can't get a job in the US.

[garbon]

I've never been a criminal, and I can't get a job in the US.

You haven't got one yet / I doubt you are looking for menial work.

[katmai]

Get some marketable skills.

[Barrister]

He is eligible for release in 2019 and it sounds like he would be released then.

Who or what is served by him staying in prison for another 7 years?  He is going to be freed, and there is little risk of re-offending.  Why not let him out while he is still young enough to try and do something with his life?

I will give you the no non-sense answer.

A prisoner who has been incarcerated for a long period of time and/or during an important developmental stage of their lives becomes institutionalized. They learn to function within a very strict set of norms, mores, and rules that exist in their society i.e. the prison rules and the prisoner's rules. Prisons are very brutal places. The worst of society has been forced together and has evolved their own means of dealing with everyday life. Rape, assaults, murder, theft, bribery, etc, and so on, are as common to them as going to work, the mall, and the club are to everyday people. The longer a person is incarcerated the more the come to accept the "rules" of the greater society, in this case the prison management. As the prisoners age, they are less subject to the drives, goals, and passions that drive younger people.

An older prisoner being release often equates to a sad broken person with little spirit or purpose (beyond everyday survival). They might not have any goals other than not returning to prison.

A younger prisoner being released often equates to an angry person who resents society and what they have been required to do to survive. When their coping skills fail them they return to what they know which is the system of brutality that existed inside prison society. They many times feel they are owed something and therefore will take what they want using the ways and means they understand best.

There are no absolutes in life, so what I described doesn't fit every person. However, when the alternative is society being harmed than it's better to be safe than sorry. The trouble is that many people feel "sorry" for prisoners because deep down inside they understand they have little or no chance of being effected by what the prisoner does to re-offend, so they have no fear of the consequences.

I am deeply troubled by using a strictly utilitarian analysis such as "well he's been so institutionalized he's a risk so we might as well just lock him up".  It takes no account of anything the individual has actually done.  You might as well say "well black males raised by single mothers are at a high risk to commit crimes, so we might as well lock them all up just to be safe".

I'm not going to shed too many tears for Greg Ousley.  He murdered two people, and he deserved to be punished.  But he was 14 years old, not a full adult, and his punishment seems to be way out of proportion given that fact.

[merithyn]

I understand what Strix is saying, but I don't think it's as simple as he's making it seem.

It's tough, but not impossible to re-adjust. And it doesn't make sense to hold them longer just because it's hard to re-adjust. It seems like the argument you present is playing to the worst-case scenarios and not taking into account individual circumstances. This kid, I guess adult now, will have a different playing field than others in that he didn't have a lifetime of crime before this one, and he was somewhat protected in the prison system during his first years in.

I'm with BB. It's a sad situation. The kid needed to be punished, but how much is too much? Personally, I think juvenile offenders like this should be incarcerated no longer than their 25th birthday. Their brains are fully functioning, they will have had time to figure things out on why they did what they did, and they will still have an opportunity to become a working, functioning member of society.

[Neil]

See, and this is why women shouldn't have been given the vote.  Their soft hearts make justice impossible.

[Maximus]

See, and this is why womenlawyers shouldn't have been given the vote.  Their soft heartsgreed and lust for power make justice impossible.

fixed

[Barrister]

See, and this is why womenlawyers shouldn't have been given the vote.  Their soft heartsgreed and lust for power make justice impossible.

fixed

Our greed and lust is precisely what makes the justice system work though.   

[Maximus]

Prosecutors are excepted. In their case it's the Machiavellian designs that are a threat.

[The Brain]

[CountDeMoney]

I understand what Strix is saying, but I don't think it's as simple as he's making it seem.

It's tough, but not impossible to re-adjust. And it doesn't make sense to hold them longer just because it's hard to re-adjust. It seems like the argument you present is playing to the worst-case scenarios and not taking into account individual circumstances. This kid, I guess adult now, will have a different playing field than others in that he didn't have a lifetime of crime before this one, and he was somewhat protected in the prison system during his first years in.

There is an episode of Lock Up: Raw, one of MSNBC's series, in which they were dealing with inmates that were to be released.  One of the more fascinating cases was a guy just like Ousley.  This guy was locked up for killing his father when he was 17 in a really fucked up conspiracy case between his mother, sister and brother-in-law, served 26 years, and was finally being released. 

This guy was totally dysfunctional in so many day-to-day ways that he could've been considered borderline learning disabled...they showed examples, like being unable to use a can of Cheez Whiz, despite following the directions (pressing the tip seemed counter-intuitive) or putting quarters flat on the metal tray for a vending machine, despite the slots (Quarters? On their thin side?)...so much of every-day life as it had developed over 26 years was totally alien to him.  Stuff like that, the guy just had trouble dealing with the outside world, all the little things that are out there we don't have second thoughts about.

Got a job, fell off a roof.  Now he's learning to walk again, on top of everything else.  Guy's just born under a bad sign.

The episode is Lockup: Raw - The Revolving Door; some really fucked up stories about those cut loose from the system.

I think juvenile offenders like this should be incarcerated no longer than their 25th birthday. Their brains are fully functioning, they will have had time to figure things out on why they did what they did, and they will still have an opportunity to become a working, functioning member of society.

Meh.