New York micro-appartments

[CountDeMoney]

@GF- Bloomberg is a more successful Donald Trump, he was bored with just being a rich dude so decided to try his hand at politics.

I disagree; he is very much personally concerned with various issues, including public health, and feels the best way to directly affect change is through politics.  It's not because he's a bored rich dude.

[DGuller]

@GF- Bloomberg is a more successful Donald Trump, he was bored with just being a rich dude so decided to try his hand at politics.

I disagree; he is very much personally concerned with various issues, including public health, and feels the best way to directly affect change is through politics.  It's not because he's a bored rich dude.

Apart from being an overbearing nanny, Bloomberg is about as admirable as multi-billionaries can be.  He is doing the best he can to make a difference in the public sphere, and unlike his country house buddies the difference he's trying to make is a positive one.

[Martinus]

Come to think of it...my current place might actually be smaller than that...And I find it too big for just me (though probally not quite big enough for two people, I call it a 1 1/2 person flat).

But meh, American averages really should not be applied to New York considering most of the US has the population density of the moon and what people there are live in mansions whilst New York...follows rather different rules.
The size we're talking about here is more than livable, even long term for an eternally single person, especially with the layout they propose (the layout of my place sucks balls).
Though it will make sitcoms difficult...

Did you guys not read the other part of the infographic? Bloomberg has a 12,500 square feet townhouse. It's not in the middle of nowhere, it's not in the suburbs. It's in the middle of everything.

That's the BS of it.

That's actually the part of the outrage here I completely don't get.

That's like being mad at a rich dude, who starts a chain of soup kitchens for poor people, because he eats lobster at home. Why is this in any way despicable or double standard?

If he commissioned a new line of subway, you would rail at him because he drives an Aston Martin? What the fuck?

[garbon]

This is a very smart initiate by Bloomberg, though, because NYC rent control policies pretty much obliterated the part of the real estate segment that young non-millionaire professionals who don't want to room with two strangers look for.

There are very few rent controlled places in the city. Most of the units that exist are rent stabilized which only slows rent inflation.

[garbon]

Anyway - 275 sq ft

[DGuller]

This is a very smart initiate by Bloomberg, though, because NYC rent control policies pretty much obliterated the part of the real estate segment that young non-millionaire professionals who don't want to room with two strangers look for.

There are very few rent controlled places in the city. Most of the units that exist are rent stabilized which only slows rent inflation.

Rent stabilization isn't as bad as rent control, but it still very distorting.  Tenants are still incentivized to hog their apartments, and more seriously, developers are incentivized to stay the hell away from low-end rental market due to political risk.  What you wind up with is old housing that's rent-stabilized and rarely on the market, high end luxury rentals, and condos.  Moderately priced new rental construction is nowhere to be found.

[Josquius]

That's actually the part of the outrage here I completely don't get.

That's like being mad at a rich dude, who starts a chain of soup kitchens for poor people, because he eats lobster at home. Why is this in any way despicable or double standard?

If he commissioned a new line of subway, you would rail at him because he drives an Aston Martin? What the fuck?

Agreed.
Sure he has a much bigger house but he had to pay a hell of a lot more to own it.

[DGuller]

And right on cue, the top Yahoo article is this:  http://shine.yahoo.com/decorating/couple-lives-240-square-foot-apartment-213500626.html .  A 240 square foot studio in Brooklyn goes for $1500.  Just to get an idea of how fucked up the real estate market is in NYC.

[Grey Fox]

Come to think of it...my current place might actually be smaller than that...And I find it too big for just me (though probally not quite big enough for two people, I call it a 1 1/2 person flat).

But meh, American averages really should not be applied to New York considering most of the US has the population density of the moon and what people there are live in mansions whilst New York...follows rather different rules.
The size we're talking about here is more than livable, even long term for an eternally single person, especially with the layout they propose (the layout of my place sucks balls).
Though it will make sitcoms difficult...

Did you guys not read the other part of the infographic? Bloomberg has a 12,500 square feet townhouse. It's not in the middle of nowhere, it's not in the suburbs. It's in the middle of everything.

That's the BS of it.

That's actually the part of the outrage here I completely don't get.

That's like being mad at a rich dude, who starts a chain of soup kitchens for poor people, because he eats lobster at home. Why is this in any way despicable or double standard?

If he commissioned a new line of subway, you would rail at him because he drives an Aston Martin? What the fuck?

Oh I'm not really outrage in this. I agree with you that it usually makes no sense to be outrage of what rich people do with their money. I prefer to be outraged with how they made it in the first place.

What I find totally incredible is that on the same 100 sqkm of island there's tiny micro apartments of 300 sq feet & 12500 sq feet townhouses.

[garbon]

Rent stabilization isn't as bad as rent control, but it still very distorting.  Tenants are still incentivized to hog their apartments, and more seriously, developers are incentivized to stay the hell away from low-end rental market due to political risk.  What you wind up with is old housing that's rent-stabilized and rarely on the market, high end luxury rentals, and condos.  Moderately priced new rental construction is nowhere to be found.

I'm not sure I completely understand it though. I mean if those places weren't stabilized and their rents were increasing, how does that help anyone who is trying to get into the city?  You might see more people bounced out as they can't afford their place going to market rate...but would that end up with market rate becoming affordable?

On that couple - maybe they could have done a better apt search? / Chosen a different location?

[garbon]

What I find totally incredible is that on the same 100 sqkm of island there's tiny micro apartments of 300 sq feet & 12500 sq feet townhouses.

Why is that incredible?

[Martinus]

What I find totally incredible is that on the same 100 sqkm of island there's tiny micro apartments of 300 sq feet & 12500 sq feet townhouses.

Why is that incredible?

Yeah. I must be missing some point here.

[garbon]

The flat I live right now in is only about 1/3 bigger than that.

Looks like we live in similar-sized places. I feel a little bad for you as you are certainly much taller than I am.

[Grey Fox]

Because it's both extremes of the scale. It misses...order. Must be the OCD acting up.

[DGuller]

Rent stabilization isn't as bad as rent control, but it still very distorting.  Tenants are still incentivized to hog their apartments, and more seriously, developers are incentivized to stay the hell away from low-end rental market due to political risk.  What you wind up with is old housing that's rent-stabilized and rarely on the market, high end luxury rentals, and condos.  Moderately priced new rental construction is nowhere to be found.

I'm not sure I completely understand it though. I mean if those places weren't stabilized and their rents were increasing, how does that help anyone who is trying to get into the city?  You might see more people bounced out as they can't afford their place going to market rate...but would that end up with market rate becoming affordable?

On that couple - maybe they could have done a better apt search? / Chosen a different location?

It works that way because there are two markets for apartments.  One market is the market of rent-stabilized apartments, which is affordable if they're available, but by simple Econ 101 logic, they're not in sufficient quantities.  The second market is the unregulated luxury apartment market (or condos).  Because there isn't enough supply of affordable apartments, often the option is to rent a much more expensive apartment, or nothing at all.  There is also a secondary longer term effect where developers are discouraged from building more affordable apartment buildings, because they run the risk of yet another rent control law appropriating the control of their property.

Here is an old Paul Krugman column on this issue:  http://www.pkarchive.org/column/6700.html .