Calling Languish parents: Why did you decide to have children?

[Martinus]

Simple question.

[Syt]

[Tamas]

yeah


Interesting raise of topic. Marty is well in the age-range where most single heteros switch to panic mode, settle and have kids ASAP. Those who don't, seem to pay for their freedom with doubt over their decision, and a lonely old age.
Instead of paying for the calm of succumbing to society and biology and not dying alone, with sacraficing their freedom and well-being for others, of course.

Still, my point is: do gay people have the "omg I must settle and have kids so I won't slip into lone madness when I am old" urges?

[The Brain]

Transgender World? Really?

[Martinus]

yeah


Interesting raise of topic. Marty is well in the age-range where most single heteros switch to panic mode, settle and have kids ASAP. Those who don't, seem to pay for their freedom with doubt over their decision, and a lonely old age.
Instead of paying for the calm of succumbing to society and biology and not dying alone, with sacraficing their freedom and well-being for others, of course.

Still, my point is: do gay people have the "omg I must settle and have kids so I won't slip into lone madness when I am old" urges?

Not really. I am just curious about people's justification for their decision to have children. I sincerely hope, for the sake of humanity, that it was not a thoroughly selfish justification of the kind you mention in your post - because that would have been utterly immoral.

[Brazen]

On my 30th birthday some friends brought their delightful baby along. That night was my one and only "I want one" weepy breakdown. As soon as the reality of "Why don't you stop taking your Pill tonight?" hit me, I went right off the idea and returned to the world of cream-coloured carpets, impractical shoes and leather car seats. Never had the urge again.

Lonesomely old age? I suspect it will be less so with the friends I have chosen throughout my life rather than sinking into bitterness that the fruit of my loins left town when they were 18 and never calls except to ask for money.

[Martinus]

On my 30th birthday some friends brought their delightful baby along. That night was my one and only "I want one" weepy breakdown. As soon as the reality of "Why don't you stop taking your Pill tonight?" hit me, I went right off the idea and returned to the world of cream-coloured carpets, impractical shoes and leather car seats. Never had the urge again.

Lonesomely old age? I suspect it will be less so with the friends I have chosen throughout my life rather than sinking into bitterness that the fruit of my loins left town when they were 18 and never calls except to ask for money.

Indeed. Besides, the way I see it, as thinking and self-aware beings, the onus should be on us to show why we want to bring someone into the world, not the opposite. The Kant's practical imperative is to always treat humanity of others as a goal in itself and never as only a means to reach another goal - so creating a human being for the purpose of not being lonely, or to have someone remember you, or to bring happiness to your life or your relationship, or to secure your retirement is the utmostly selfish and immoral reason because then the kid is just a tool for you to feel better about yourself.

I don't doubt a lot of people have kids for non-selfish reasons though that's why I started this thread. Although I guess now I spilled the beans about my purpose, as I could not leave Tamas's idiocy alone.

[Tamas]

  I knew this would get things rolling. I am sorry Mart but your OP was so bland and obvious bait, I had to step in.


I am over 30 and the only thing remotely interesting in having children, for me, is perhaps the challenge of bringing them up right, plus continuing the family line. But  every time I see a child throwing a tantrum, or hear stories of my family-raising friends, I have some SERIOUS doubts.

That said, the want to have children is clearly quite instinctive. Not having any is thus the harder choice. Just look at how you open this topic, how you want to engage in high philosopy on the topic, etc. People with children are much more laid back about the issue and not opening "why don't you have children" topics, or call us "non-breeders". Surely because, for whatever other and possibly bigger motivation, they have "completed" their instinctive urge of having offsprings, and by their family with children, taken their standard and final position in the social order.

[Valdemar]

I didn't know justification was needed?  Reason, explanation, other words come to mind, but justification?

If any justification is called for its all the hip 30-40 year olds who are too busy being self absorbed to care for growing up, acting like the twenties are the new teenagers and the forties the new thirties 

They need justification when they want society to pay first for their vain, and often failed attempts at getting children at the age of 40+ and later when they want society and by that extend my kids' taxes, to pay for a burdensome group of elderlies expecting to continue life in the high gear in plush retirement homes, expecting better and better wellfare for each new generation 

There is a term in my society called the burden of the lederly that is growing drastically with the group of elderly expecting better service from society while their demographic group is outgrowing the size of the actual taxpayers

V

[Valdemar]

I knew this would get things rolling. I am sorry Mart but your OP was so bland and obvious bait, I had to step in.


I am over 30 and the only thing remotely interesting in having children, for me, is perhaps the challenge of bringing them up right, plus continuing the family line. But  every time I see a child throwing a tantrum, or hear stories of my family-raising friends, I have some SERIOUS doubts.

That said, the want to have children is clearly quite instinctive. Not having any is thus the harder choice. Just look at how you open this topic, how you want to engage in high philosopy on the topic, etc. People with children are much more laid back about the issue and not opening "why don't you have children" topics, or call us "non-breeders". Surely because, for whatever other and possibly bigger motivation, they have "completed" their instinctive urge of having offsprings, and by their family with children, taken their standard and final position in the social order.

You are quite right, the high horse of Martinus and the implied insult of namecalling is so stereotyped that it is funny.

What really puzzles me is why Martinus and his ilk (sorry Brazen, you are generally not included in this) feel such a need to to justify their own choice by requiring the ROTW to justify their progeneration of the species

It makes me think they are highly defensive of their own choices and that their apparent superiority complex is quite hollow..

The funny thing is, I dont question neither his choice of sexuality, nor his lack of drive for children, but apparently he feels a need to question every other choice the rest of us makes? Does that mean he is insecure in his own choices? 

V

[Tamas]

The funny thing is, I dont question neither his choice of sexuality, nor his lack of drive for children, but apparently he feels a need to question every other choice the rest of us makes? Does that mean he is insecure in his own choices?

yes

[Valdemar]

The funny thing is, I dont question neither his choice of sexuality, nor his lack of drive for children, but apparently he feels a need to question every other choice the rest of us makes? Does that mean he is insecure in his own choices?

yes

I knew it

V

[Valmy]

Indeed. Besides, the way I see it, as thinking and self-aware beings, the onus should be on us to show why we want to bring someone into the world, not the opposite. The Kant's practical imperative is to always treat humanity of others as a goal in itself and never as only a means to reach another goal - so creating a human being for the purpose of not being lonely, or to have someone remember you, or to bring happiness to your life or your relationship, or to secure your retirement is the utmostly selfish and immoral reason because then the kid is just a tool for you to feel better about yourself.

I don't doubt a lot of people have kids for non-selfish reasons though that's why I started this thread. Although I guess now I spilled the beans about my purpose, as I could not leave Tamas's idiocy alone.

I am sorry is your life all about acting selflessly and full of morals?  We usually do not call you out to explain yourself to see just how noble and non-selfish you are.

In any case I did feel an obligation, as an intelligent and able person, to bring kids into the world raised the right way with the right values and society does need a steady flow of children at a modest rate to keep things going.  We are well below this modest rate in alot of the first world so I felt like people needed to step up and fill out the next generation a bit.  I mean do you ever worry how so many of the next generation are being brought into the world by fundies and those in poverty?  Can progress be sustained like that?  That line of thinking made me think this is something I had an imperative to do to the best of my ability.

[Ideologue]

On my 30th birthday some friends brought their delightful baby along. That night was my one and only "I want one" weepy breakdown. As soon as the reality of "Why don't you stop taking your Pill tonight?" hit me, I went right off the idea and returned to the world of cream-coloured carpets, impractical shoes and leather car seats. Never had the urge again.

Lonesomely old age? I suspect it will be less so with the friends I have chosen throughout my life rather than sinking into bitterness that the fruit of my loins left town when they were 18 and never calls except to ask for money.

Indeed. Besides, the way I see it, as thinking and self-aware beings, the onus should be on us to show why we want to bring someone into the world, not the opposite. The Kant's practical imperative is to always treat humanity of others as a goal in itself and never as only a means to reach another goal - so creating a human being for the purpose of not being lonely, or to have someone remember you, or to bring happiness to your life or your relationship, or to secure your retirement is the utmostly selfish and immoral reason because then the kid is just a tool for you to feel better about yourself.

That's how I treat everyone else.  Why should it be different with my very own creation?

[garbon]