Hungarian Anti-Semitic Deputy Admits Jewish Roots

Started by viper37, June 28, 2012, 09:32:43 AM

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dps

Quote from: Malthus on June 29, 2012, 02:36:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 29, 2012, 02:22:33 PM
Christians and Jews worship the same God.  Up 'til Jesus Birth. ;) :P
It's just that we added 2 more and merged them with the Supreme Lord to make it easier to recruit the pagans worshipping multiple gods. ;)

Anyway, serious questions: is there a concept of "saints" in judaism, as there is in christianity (for Catholics, at least)?

Nope.

There are (or were) prophets, but no saints.

The distinction, from what I understand, is that prophets have a direct connection to God while they are alive, like Moses, while saints have a direct connection to god after they are dead; so in Catholicism for example they can intercede for you if you pray to them for help.

There is nothing like that in Judaism.

That's pretty much a Catholic view of Christian saints, though.  In fact, praying to saints is on of the main things that separates most Protestants from Catholics.  To most Protestants, a "saint" is anyone who sets an example of living up to Christian ideals (or coming close to them).

I'm much less familiar with Orthodox attitudes on the subject, but my understanding is that generally, Orthodox Christians for the most part come closer to the Catholic conception of saints than to the Protestant one (not to suggest, given the number of Protestant sects, that there is only "one" Protestant POV here).

Valmy

#31
Quote from: dps on June 29, 2012, 04:39:44 PM
That's pretty much a Catholic view of Christian saints, though.  In fact, praying to saints is on of the main things that separates most Protestants from Catholics.  To most Protestants, a "saint" is anyone who sets an example of living up to Christian ideals (or coming close to them).

I'm much less familiar with Orthodox attitudes on the subject, but my understanding is that generally, Orthodox Christians for the most part come closer to the Catholic conception of saints than to the Protestant one (not to suggest, given the number of Protestant sects, that there is only "one" Protestant POV here).

I never really understood the big difference between having some living person pray for you and asking some dead person to pray for you.  Or why specifically some Protestants seem to have a problem with it.  I mean either way you are getting some third party to talk to God for you.

I mean the theology behind Saints is just this person is so good and so devout they are assured to be in Heaven so they have the hook up right?

I guess it is just the extent some Catholics took the power of these saints to cash in favors.  Like how the excesses of the Iconodules might have been one of the motivators for the Byzantine Inconoclasts.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Tonitrus

It kinds seems to me that the way saints work is almost like a quasi-paganism.  Instead of "god of animals and lost causes", you got "saint" instead.

The Brain

Popery has nothing to do with real Christianity.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

dps

Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2012, 05:30:36 PM
Quote from: dps on June 29, 2012, 04:39:44 PM
That's pretty much a Catholic view of Christian saints, though.  In fact, praying to saints is on of the main things that separates most Protestants from Catholics.  To most Protestants, a "saint" is anyone who sets an example of living up to Christian ideals (or coming close to them).

I'm much less familiar with Orthodox attitudes on the subject, but my understanding is that generally, Orthodox Christians for the most part come closer to the Catholic conception of saints than to the Protestant one (not to suggest, given the number of Protestant sects, that there is only "one" Protestant POV here).

I never really understood the big difference between having some living person pray for you and asking some dead person to pray for you.  Or why specifically some Protestants seem to have a problem with it.  I mean either way you are getting some third party to talk to God for you.

Uhm, because Protestants are praying directly to God himself*, not asking a 3rd party to intercede for them?

*again, with the caveat that this probably isn't true for all Protestant sects, though I can't think off-hand of a major Protestant denomination for which it wouldn't be.

Razgovory

#35
Do they?  How many times have you heard Protestants beseech people to pray for someone who is ill or in danger or invoke God to bless someone or something thing (God Bless America!)?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017