The Miscellaneous PC & vidya Games Thread

[Tamas]

But the UI of course continues to be terrible. A ridiculous amounts of clicks and more than half of them to find out or confirm that I can't do the thing that I want to do, because there's no easier way to learn that other than trying.

t's something that has frustrated me for a long while now. There are incredible amounts of research and talent going into these games with the OOBs and the scenario designs. But they mostly end up wasted because the engine they use is from the mid-90s.

[The Brain]

But the UI of course continues to be terrible. A ridiculous amounts of clicks and more than half of them to find out or confirm that I can't do the thing that I want to do, because there's no easier way to learn that other than trying.

t's something that has frustrated me for a long while now. There are incredible amounts of research and talent going into these games with the OOBs and the scenario designs. But they mostly end up wasted because the engine they use is from the mid-90s.

I can't shake the feeling that there's an idea in some circles that if you're into decent interfaces and playability you're not a true computer wargaming enthusiast.

[Syt]

But the UI of course continues to be terrible. A ridiculous amounts of clicks and more than half of them to find out or confirm that I can't do the thing that I want to do, because there's no easier way to learn that other than trying.

t's something that has frustrated me for a long while now. There are incredible amounts of research and talent going into these games with the OOBs and the scenario designs. But they mostly end up wasted because the engine they use is from the mid-90s.

Anything specifically? Personally, I find it hard to gauge in these games how many AP it takes to switch movement modes, and how many I get in one vs the other. Or how many AP I will have left when moving next to a unit. For larger scenarios I've made it a habit to highlight moved units during my turn so I keep track of who has moved and who hasn't. Similar, at the start of the scenario I highlight all fixed units, and whether any reinforcements are expected and when.

That said, the base strat is easy. Shoot a hex until units are disrupted, then assault. Minimize enemy opportunity fire when moving while maximizing yours for the AI turn. Etc. Again, I feel this works best in their WW2 games.

[Tamas]

But the UI of course continues to be terrible. A ridiculous amounts of clicks and more than half of them to find out or confirm that I can't do the thing that I want to do, because there's no easier way to learn that other than trying.

t's something that has frustrated me for a long while now. There are incredible amounts of research and talent going into these games with the OOBs and the scenario designs. But they mostly end up wasted because the engine they use is from the mid-90s.

Anything specifically? Personally, I find it hard to gauge in these games how many AP it takes to switch movement modes, and how many I get in one vs the other. Or how many AP I will have left when moving next to a unit. For larger scenarios I've made it a habit to highlight moved units during my turn so I keep track of who has moved and who hasn't. Similar, at the start of the scenario I highlight all fixed units, and whether any reinforcements are expected and when.

That said, the base strat is easy. Shoot a hex until units are disrupted, then assault. Minimize enemy opportunity fire when moving while maximizing yours for the AI turn. Etc. Again, I feel this works best in their WW2 games.

Excellent points!

[Syt]

Oh, and use the artillery menu to make sure you use all your assets. Though I still have trouble understanding what makes a unit "unavailable" during a turn.

[Syt]

Btw, the gfx update for the Squad Battles series is a mixed bag. The terrain looks much better, but the units much worse. 

Oh, and Tamas, if you have any of the old WW2 Panzer Campaign games: they all have their Gold upgrades now for nicer graphics and overhauled/added scenarios.

[Tamas]

But the UI of course continues to be terrible. A ridiculous amounts of clicks and more than half of them to find out or confirm that I can't do the thing that I want to do, because there's no easier way to learn that other than trying.

t's something that has frustrated me for a long while now. There are incredible amounts of research and talent going into these games with the OOBs and the scenario designs. But they mostly end up wasted because the engine they use is from the mid-90s.

I can't shake the feeling that there's an idea in some circles that if you're into decent interfaces and playability you're not a true computer wargaming enthusiast.

I think they just don't really care. Regardless of genre, it is very easy to develop snow blindness to the problems of a software you have been intimately familiar with. For the people developing for the Tiller engine, using it is second nature. Learning to work with something else would be a major undertaking for what is basically a free-time hobby for most of these guys, and I think most of them are happy to just design and develop for their own no doubt shrinking circles.

And that's fair enough, there are plenty of niche online hobbies out there. I just think these wargames could reach a far bigger audience if done in at least a remotely modern way.

[Tamas]

Btw, the gfx update for the Squad Battles series is a mixed bag. The terrain looks much better, but the units much worse. 

Oh, and Tamas, if you have any of the old WW2 Panzer Campaign games: they all have their Gold upgrades now for nicer graphics and overhauled/added scenarios.

Thanks, I don't remember buying any of them back in the day.

[Berkut]

New ACW game:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1241910/Victory_and_Glory_The_American_Civil_War/

My initial review after being dumb and buying this because it is ACW and strategic and I really really really really want there to be a playable strategic ACW game....

So I am sitting at home and very bored, and I love ACW games, so I decided to give this a try. My first impressions after two games!

Game 1, Union. Turn 3 sees the fall of Washington. Hmmm.

I send McDowell south with his army of 12 or so, and he is promptly attacked by a Southern army of 11. OK! First Bull Run! He gets absolutely crushed - loses 8 of his 11 units, and the south loses 2 units.
4:1 casualty ratio in a major battle! Wow! That's impressive, since nobody ever achieved that during the war ever!
The South marches to Washington, and attacks again, but I am clever and play my reinforce battle card! Hah! That 9 to 6 battle is now 9 to 11!
Doesn't matter, I get crushed, and all my units are killed between the battle and pursuit. Washington falls on turn 3 or 4.
OK, so that went poorly. Lets try this again....

Start over, and this time, I am getting some leaders, damnit! We sent Grant to Washington right away, and get him a couple more leaders so at least when we fight we will have leaders in every spot. Surely this will matter!
I reinforce, and on turn 3? 4? Both sides have max sized armies in Virginia. It's 1864, except in the spring of 1861.
The CSA attacks Grant and his 20 with their 20, except they have Lee (who is much better than Grant) and Jackson (who is also better than Grant), and the battle is just silly. I do like 1 point of damage, and every shot the CSA fires destroys a unit. On round 3, Grant is killed, and I've lost like 8 units to zero CSA losses
.
So far, the game doesn't feel like it has any resemblance to the American Civil War.

But it's only been a few hours of play....

[Syt]

  My condolences.

Have you played Gary Grigsby's War Between the States?



In a pang of nostalgia I dug winSPWW2 (the updated version of old Steel Panthers). Damn, it's still fun. Not overly complicated, and easy to play. The gfx haven't aged well. I find an 800x600 resolution works best for me. I can play in desktop resolution of 1920x1080, but the interface doesn't scale and the text becomes tiny.

I think the closest to a modern incarnation might be Armored Brigade (though that's NATO vs WP, and real time).

[The Brain]

I would love to have winSPWW2 with somewhat contemporary graphics. That would rule.

[Syt]

I would love to have winSPWW2 with somewhat contemporary graphics. That would rule.

It's pretty bad when you have green soldiers on green background. Say a sniper in a woods tile. Or soviet brown units on brown terrain. I switch on the unit flag markers, because it's easy to overlook units.

[Tamas]

New ACW game:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1241910/Victory_and_Glory_The_American_Civil_War/

My initial review after being dumb and buying this because it is ACW and strategic and I really really really really want there to be a playable strategic ACW game....

So I am sitting at home and very bored, and I love ACW games, so I decided to give this a try. My first impressions after two games!

Game 1, Union. Turn 3 sees the fall of Washington. Hmmm.

I send McDowell south with his army of 12 or so, and he is promptly attacked by a Southern army of 11. OK! First Bull Run! He gets absolutely crushed - loses 8 of his 11 units, and the south loses 2 units.
4:1 casualty ratio in a major battle! Wow! That's impressive, since nobody ever achieved that during the war ever!
The South marches to Washington, and attacks again, but I am clever and play my reinforce battle card! Hah! That 9 to 6 battle is now 9 to 11!
Doesn't matter, I get crushed, and all my units are killed between the battle and pursuit. Washington falls on turn 3 or 4.
OK, so that went poorly. Lets try this again....

Start over, and this time, I am getting some leaders, damnit! We sent Grant to Washington right away, and get him a couple more leaders so at least when we fight we will have leaders in every spot. Surely this will matter!
I reinforce, and on turn 3? 4? Both sides have max sized armies in Virginia. It's 1864, except in the spring of 1861.
The CSA attacks Grant and his 20 with their 20, except they have Lee (who is much better than Grant) and Jackson (who is also better than Grant), and the battle is just silly. I do like 1 point of damage, and every shot the CSA fires destroys a unit. On round 3, Grant is killed, and I've lost like 8 units to zero CSA losses
.
So far, the game doesn't feel like it has any resemblance to the American Civil War.

But it's only been a few hours of play....

Doesn't even sound like Victory and Glory's (Napoleonic one) combat results, more like the Hannibal game from the save dev (which is pretty awesome if you can look past the graphics).

[The Brain]

New ACW game:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1241910/Victory_and_Glory_The_American_Civil_War/

My initial review after being dumb and buying this because it is ACW and strategic and I really really really really want there to be a playable strategic ACW game....

So I am sitting at home and very bored, and I love ACW games, so I decided to give this a try. My first impressions after two games!

Game 1, Union. Turn 3 sees the fall of Washington. Hmmm.

I send McDowell south with his army of 12 or so, and he is promptly attacked by a Southern army of 11. OK! First Bull Run! He gets absolutely crushed - loses 8 of his 11 units, and the south loses 2 units.
4:1 casualty ratio in a major battle! Wow! That's impressive, since nobody ever achieved that during the war ever!
The South marches to Washington, and attacks again, but I am clever and play my reinforce battle card! Hah! That 9 to 6 battle is now 9 to 11!
Doesn't matter, I get crushed, and all my units are killed between the battle and pursuit. Washington falls on turn 3 or 4.
OK, so that went poorly. Lets try this again....

Start over, and this time, I am getting some leaders, damnit! We sent Grant to Washington right away, and get him a couple more leaders so at least when we fight we will have leaders in every spot. Surely this will matter!
I reinforce, and on turn 3? 4? Both sides have max sized armies in Virginia. It's 1864, except in the spring of 1861.
The CSA attacks Grant and his 20 with their 20, except they have Lee (who is much better than Grant) and Jackson (who is also better than Grant), and the battle is just silly. I do like 1 point of damage, and every shot the CSA fires destroys a unit. On round 3, Grant is killed, and I've lost like 8 units to zero CSA losses
.
So far, the game doesn't feel like it has any resemblance to the American Civil War.

But it's only been a few hours of play....

Wah! The AI beats me! Not realistic! Wah!

[Habbaku]

My condolences.

Have you played Gary Grigsby's War Between the States?

Oh, yeah, Berkut and I played that a decent bit. It's better, but still generates weird results.