World Bank: Unions Good for the Economy

[Admiral Yi]

But wait... I thought Timmy was your homeboy and you have his back in his Timmytastitude, so how is being Timmytastic bad in your eyes?

Timmy hasn't been my homeboy since he called me worse than Satan for cheering on Jerry Sanduski while he buttfucked a little kid.

I've defended Timmy's spamming of news stories, but not his meatheaded characterizations.

[CountDeMoney]

Unions suck.

Alright.

It's simple, Jacob:  the private sector has spent over 30 years eliminating the concepts of benefits and pensions, driving individuals to the fucked-up healthcare industry and to rely on Wall Street casinos for their retirements years ago, so why should teachers and cops and EVOL GUVMINT employees still have them?  ITS JUST NOT FAIR MAN THATS COMMUNISTIC

[garbon]

Hey now, pensions do fabulous things for economies!

[Jacob]

Hey now, pensions do fabulous things for economies!

[Neil]

Unions suck.

Alright.

It's simple, Jacob:  the private sector has spent over 30 years eliminating the concepts of benefits and pensions, driving individuals to the fucked-up healthcare industry and to rely on Wall Street casinos for their retirements years ago, so why should teachers and cops and EVOL GUVMINT employees still have them?  ITS JUST NOT FAIR MAN THATS COMMUNISTIC

They need to find the money to keep the system going from somewhere.  You can't keep the stock market bubble from crashing without pouring in more and more money that would be better spent or saved elsewhere, and if that bubble crashes then all of the sudden investment bankers, lawyers and corporate raiders would find themselves facing lean times.

[Camerus]

Unions have their shitty qualities, but they're one of the few major groups with clout to represent working and middle classes, particularly in these days of increasing class cleavage and piratical executives.  Not to mention unions also provide job protection for certain kinds of employees in those sectors (e.g. teaching, police work) prone to Timmaysque moral panics and subsequent capricious firings.

[Admiral Yi]

Unions have their shitty qualities, but they're one of the few major groups with clout to represent working and middle classes, particularly in these days of increasing class cleavage and piratical executives.  Not to mention unions also provide job protection for certain kinds of employees in those sectors (e.g. teaching, police work) prone to Timmaysque moral panics and subsequent capricious firings.

Unions don't represent any classes; they represent their members.

Don't know where you're getting the claim about capricious firings from.

[Camerus]

Unions have their shitty qualities, but they're one of the few major groups with clout to represent working and middle classes, particularly in these days of increasing class cleavage and piratical executives.  Not to mention unions also provide job protection for certain kinds of employees in those sectors (e.g. teaching, police work) prone to Timmaysque moral panics and subsequent capricious firings.

Unions don't represent any classes; they represent their members.

Sure, in much the same way that big business lobby groups don't represent any classes either.

[Admiral Yi]

Sure, in much the same way that big business lobby groups don't represent any classes either.

In a completely different way.  There are lobbying groups such as the Chamber of Commerce that lobby on issues that affect all members like tax rates, SEC filings, etc.  When's the last time a union lobbied to increase my pay?

[Jacob]

Sure, in much the same way that big business lobby groups don't represent any classes either.

In a completely different way.  There are lobbying groups such as the Chamber of Commerce that lobby on issues that affect all members like tax rates, SEC filings, etc.  When's the last time a union lobbied to increase my pay?

Are there any unions active in your field?

Because I can tell you that in several fields labour standards and wages are a big deal for unions, and they want to increase them (and working conditions) for non-members as well.

If you were, for example, a non-unionized fruit picker in the US or a worker in a garment factory in Vietnam, the relevant unions are in fact lobbying to increase your pay and improve your working conditions.

[Jacob]

Timmy hasn't been my homeboy since he called me worse than Satan for cheering on Jerry Sanduski while he buttfucked a little kid.

Right. That's was uniquely idiotic in a long string of Timmy idiocy. How could I have forgotten.

I've defended Timmy's spamming of news stories, but not his meatheaded characterizations.

Okay, fair enough.

[Admiral Yi]

Are there any unions active in your field?

Because I can tell you that in several fields labour standards and wages are a big deal for unions, and they want to increase them (and working conditions) for non-members as well.

If you were, for example, a non-unionized fruit picker in the US or a worker in a garment factory in Vietnam, the relevant unions are in fact lobbying to increase your pay and improve your working conditions.

I'm well aware that the unions have been trying since forever to get "workplace standards" incorporated into the WTO, in an effort to increase the price of their competition.  I'm a little surprised that Vietnamese garment workers have been singled out, as I wasn't aware that any kind of domestic garment industry still existed, let alone a unionized one.  I thought that language was aimed more at foreign auto workers, which do compete directly with unionized workers.  Similarly, efforts to unionize farm workers go back to Caesar Chavez.  Obviously unions have an interest in unionizing more workers: more dues.  What's less obvious is the interest in lobbying for an increase in pay without regard to their union membership, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

[garbon]

For Seedy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9d-HoyA4BE

[ulmont]

Sure, in much the same way that big business lobby groups don't represent any classes either.

In a completely different way.  There are lobbying groups such as the Chamber of Commerce that lobby on issues that affect all members like tax rates, SEC filings, etc.  When's the last time a union lobbied to increase my pay?

While possibly not your pay, I am aware of unions that have lobbied in recent memory to raise minimum wages which are not applicable to any of their actual members.

[Valmy]

Solidarity foreeeeeever!  Solidarity foreeeeever!  Solidarity foreeeeever!  The Union makes us strong!