It's morning in Wisconsin

[Habbaku]

So right to work states are all run on the basis of crony capitalism? 

There is a noticeable correlation.

Link?

[Hansmeister]

It is connected because the two are moneyed interests at odds with each other.  If you destroy one, the other one gets more power.  You seem to think, almost to the point of assumption, that unions are the worst evil, and should be defeated regardless of who you have to ally with.

So right to work states are all run on the basis of crony capitalism? 

Seedy: you're right.  84 is how much teachers make in NY.  Wisconsin is 73K/year.

Yi, you're actually close, 82k is the average public sector compensation in Wisconsin, vs 67k average private sector compensation.

The real reason the Unions fought so hard is the one they don't actually want to talk about: forced Unionization.  Since Walker's reforms were implemented public sector membership has been cut more than in half in Wisconsin.

So Seedy, why should people to be forced to join a political organization as a condition of employment?  Maybe we should force people to join the NRA?  Or the Chamber of Commerce?

Too bad you don't believe in freedom of association, it doesn't go well with your brownshirt.

[DGuller]

So right to work states are all run on the basis of crony capitalism? 

There is a noticeable correlation.

Link?

http://www.iwatchnews.org/2012/03/19/8423/grading-nation-how-accountable-your-state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#U.S._states_with_right-to-work_laws

Again, it's difficult to draw meaningful conclusions from this due to multicollinearity.  So many phenomena which have two states overlap neatly with the blue/red state divide.

[Ideologue]

Public Sector Unions = Worst Idea Evah

Explain.

No, he's right.  Public sector unions should be forbidden.  Just like in the USSR.

[Admiral Yi]

Your iwatchnews link doesn't work for me Guller.

[chipwich]

I strongly supported Barrett but am glad to see the massive hubris of Wisconsin Democrats punished.

[jimmy olsen]

They should have waited until November, they deserve what they get for their stupidity.

[CountDeMoney]

I'll say the same thing I said when the shit originally hit the fan.  Public employee unions are bad, but crony capitalism is worse.  If the cost of crushing the first is to further empower the second, it's a bad trade.  It's like supporting Nazis to combat communism.

Well, in this case there isn't anyone else to combat the communists. It's not like the Dems are going to take on the unions, right?

I am glad Walker stomped on the public service unions. His being supported by the "we all should get as much democracy as we can buy" crowd is pretty distasteful, but that doesn't change the fact that I think what he has done on this issue is a good thing. I don't accept that even if "crony capitalism" is worse, it is somehow connected to public service unions. I can and am happy to be against both of them (at least I think I am - I suspect "crony capitalism" doesn't really mean anything though).

It is connected because the two are moneyed interests at odds with each other.  If you destroy one, the other one gets more power.  You seem to think, almost to the point of assumption, that unions are the worst evil, and should be defeated regardless of who you have to ally with.

What the really cool thing is, and what makes guys like Berkut jizz their teabags, is how Republicans can use public policy to outlaw and eliminated the only organizations that actively support Democratic campaigns with money, while Democrats have no equal ability to legislate away the corporations and special interests groups that fund Republican campaigns.

So while guys like Walker can use legislation to virtually eliminate the AFSCME in one year, unfortunately a Democratic governor can't use public policy to legislate away American Crossroads.

And in the world of Citizens United, the only campaign money left will be Republican money.  Yay.

[Phillip V]

Voters in California Approve Pension Cuts

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/07/us/politics/voters-in-california-approve-pension-cuts-results-suggest.html

As Wisconsin residents voted on Tuesday not to recall Gov. Scott Walker — who has become an enemy of labor unions nationwide — two California cities dealt blows of their own to organized labor.

In both San Diego and San Jose, voters appeared to overwhelmingly approve ballot initiatives designed to help balance ailing municipal budgets by cutting retirement benefits for city workers.

Around 70 percent of San Jose voters favored the pension reform measure, with almost 80 percent of precincts reporting. In San Diego, 67 percent had supported a similar pension reform measure, with more than 65 percent of precincts reporting.

"This is really important to our taxpayers," Chuck Reed, the mayor of San Jose, said Tuesday night. "We'll get control over these skyrocketing retirement costs and be able to provide the services they are paying for."

[CountDeMoney]

So Seedy, why should people to be forced to join a political organization as a condition of employment?  Maybe we should force people to join the NRA?  Or the Chamber of Commerce?

Too bad you don't believe in freedom of association, it doesn't go well with your brownshirt.

I dunno, Hansy;  would I get one of those shiny NRA decals?

[CountDeMoney]

In both San Diego and San Jose, voters appeared to overwhelmingly approve ballot initiatives designed to help balance ailing municipal budgets by cutting retirement benefits for city workers.

Around 70 percent of San Jose voters favored the pension reform measure, with almost 80 percent of precincts reporting. In San Diego, 67 percent had supported a similar pension reform measure, with more than 65 percent of precincts reporting.

"This is really important to our taxpayers," Chuck Reed, the mayor of San Jose, said Tuesday night. "We'll get control over these skyrocketing retirement costs and be able to provide the services they are paying for."

[/quote]

Cool;  can the San Diego government turn around and curb Kaiser Permanente's retirement benefits for its workers?

[Ed Anger]

I dislike walker but loathe Ed Schultz and MSNBC. So a victory for me last night as Fatty had a look on his face that made me giggle.

[CountDeMoney]

I dislike walker but loathe Ed Schultz and MSNBC. So a victory for me last night as Fatty had a look on his face that made me giggle.

Who would you rather see naked in your pool;  Ed Schultz or Martin Brashir?  It's Marty, isn't it?  It's the accent.

[Razgovory]

So how much did each vote for Walker cost?

[Razgovory]

So a lot of what I'm seeing is that public sector employees shouldn't be paid very much because the sacred tax payer has to pay them.   Do I get that correct?