Was America better off with drunk, uneducated congressmen?

Started by Syt, May 27, 2012, 05:17:01 AM

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Syt

May 27, 2012, 05:17:01 AM
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

11B4V

#1
May 27, 2012, 06:55:03 AM
Yes
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

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Josquius

#2
May 27, 2012, 09:35:14 AM
Certainly Britain was a better place when we didn't have freaks who had trained themselves since they were 12 for the job as MPs. See no reason why America wouldn't be better with normal people too.

To the video- overall yes but a little voice in the back of my head keeps saying this is the sort of "lots of people who can stop things but nobody who has the power to do things" thinking that leads to fascism. :p
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Viking

#3
May 27, 2012, 09:42:38 AM
I am constantly pissed off about the college dropouts who worked within the various youth parties and drop out of college as soon as they get a job within government or within the party. It's just sad to think about.
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A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Scipio

#4
May 27, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
How did we get there, Frum?

Because of assholes like you.  You stupid cunt.
What I speak out of my mouth is the truth.  It burns like fire.
-Jose Canseco

There you go, giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck.
-Every cop, The Wire

"It is always good to be known for one's Krapp."
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grumbler

#5
May 27, 2012, 08:34:38 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 27, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
How did we get there, Frum?

Because of assholes like you.  You stupid cunt.

Damn straight.  Frum was the worst President the US has ever had.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

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Razgovory

#6
May 27, 2012, 08:47:50 PM
Well, we did have a civil war with drunk uneducated congressmen...

The major problem these days is that a politician must always be "on".  Before TV news and the like, people typically only saw politicians at speeches and campaign rallies.  People tended to assume and even expected that politicians were always like that.  Always giving the other side hell.  When actually in office politicians wouldn't make speeches at each other all the time.  They would make speeches and debate when Congress was in cession and when they had the floor, but most of the time they would not.  Often they were quite cordial with one another, and laws and policies would be hammered out behind close doors.  In drawing rooms or offices and such.  Today a congressmen never knows when the camera is on him.  He's constantly watched and everything they say has a decent chance to be recorded.  They can never afford to stop making speeches and debating.  As a result he's always "on", always in speech mode, always expected to give the other side hell.  It's like trying to write law during the middle of a televised debate.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

#7
May 27, 2012, 11:15:15 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2012, 08:47:50 PM
Well, we did have a civil war with drunk uneducated congressmen...

The major problem these days is that a politician must always be "on".  Before TV news and the like, people typically only saw politicians at speeches and campaign rallies.  People tended to assume and even expected that politicians were always like that.  Always giving the other side hell.  When actually in office politicians wouldn't make speeches at each other all the time.  They would make speeches and debate when Congress was in cession and when they had the floor, but most of the time they would not.  Often they were quite cordial with one another, and laws and policies would be hammered out behind close doors.  In drawing rooms or offices and such.  Today a congressmen never knows when the camera is on him.  He's constantly watched and everything they say has a decent chance to be recorded.  They can never afford to stop making speeches and debating.  As a result he's always "on", always in speech mode, always expected to give the other side hell.  It's like trying to write law during the middle of a televised debate.
I partially agree with this.The advent of modern news media and the 24/7 news cycle that comes with it has put much more pressure on members of congress. Of course, that's not the whole reason. There are lots of other factors in play.

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Syt

#8
May 27, 2012, 11:56:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2012, 08:47:50 PM
Well, we did have a civil war with drunk uneducated congressmen...

The major problem these days is that a politician must always be "on".  Before TV news and the like, people typically only saw politicians at speeches and campaign rallies.  People tended to assume and even expected that politicians were always like that.  Always giving the other side hell.  When actually in office politicians wouldn't make speeches at each other all the time.  They would make speeches and debate when Congress was in cession and when they had the floor, but most of the time they would not.  Often they were quite cordial with one another, and laws and policies would be hammered out behind close doors.  In drawing rooms or offices and such.  Today a congressmen never knows when the camera is on him.  He's constantly watched and everything they say has a decent chance to be recorded.  They can never afford to stop making speeches and debating.  As a result he's always "on", always in speech mode, always expected to give the other side hell.  It's like trying to write law during the middle of a televised debate.

On that I recently read a commentary in German news how political debate in Germany (and the associated scoring of points with the public) has moved away from the parliament floor and into political "talkshows", interviews (that are chronically uncritical) etc.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Scipio

#9
May 28, 2012, 08:50:42 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 27, 2012, 08:34:38 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 27, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
How did we get there, Frum?

Because of assholes like you.  You stupid cunt.

Damn straight.  Frum was the worst President the US has ever had.

And you're only half joking.
What I speak out of my mouth is the truth.  It burns like fire.
-Jose Canseco

There you go, giving a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck.
-Every cop, The Wire

"It is always good to be known for one's Krapp."
-John Hurt

DontSayBanana

#10
May 28, 2012, 12:48:28 PM
Increased pressure and the advent of the "career politician."  The politicians make a career out of pretending to foresee patterned events while completely failing to look into nuances that completely derail their policies.  Since things keep getting passed around from subcommittee to subcommittee, the houses aren't taking enough time to get an adequate number of viewpoints and properly evaluate the effects of legislation.
Experience bij!

dps

#11
May 28, 2012, 01:05:30 PM
Is there any actual evidence that members of Congress as a whole drink less now than they did in the 1950s?

grumbler

#12
May 28, 2012, 02:29:33 PM
Quote from: Scipio on May 28, 2012, 08:50:42 AM
And you're only half joking.

Well, the pronunciation half of any given speech wasn't him...
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Capetan Mihali

#13
May 28, 2012, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: dps on May 28, 2012, 01:05:30 PM
Is there any actual evidence that members of Congress as a whole drink less now than they did in the 1950s?

Everybody drinks less in America than they did in the 50s, don't see why Congress would necessarily be an exception.  IIRC, the 1830s were the peak for US booze consumption, averaging out to 5-6 drinks a day per man, woman, and child, and it's been downhill ever since, with a couple of small upturns (German breweries at the end of the 19th C. and then the 1970s).
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Razgovory

#14
May 29, 2012, 03:59:29 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on May 28, 2012, 12:48:28 PM
Increased pressure and the advent of the "career politician."  The politicians make a career out of pretending to foresee patterned events while completely failing to look into nuances that completely derail their policies.  Since things keep getting passed around from subcommittee to subcommittee, the houses aren't taking enough time to get an adequate number of viewpoints and properly evaluate the effects of legislation.

There have been "career politicians" for a very long time.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017
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