Hawaii verifies Obama birth records to Arizona

[Berkut]

So this boils down, yet again to: "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

Not really.

The basic disagreement here is whether or not DG's stance that moderate Democrats are actually Republicans because they won't vote strictly along his far left views is a fair indicator that he is a member of the fringe of his party.

There is no lack of understanding of his position that moderate Dems are not really Dems at all. At least, he has made no attempt to back away from that claim.

He just insists that calling the moderate members of his party traitors and members of the other party in a two party system does not make him an member of the extreme wing of his party, the Dem equivalent of the Tea Baggers and Nordquist crowd.

Which is rather baffling to me - his position on moderate Dems is *exactly* what Nordquist and the Tea Baggers have been insisting on for the Republican Party (albeit with much greater practical success than DGs crowd managed with the Dems). That the bulk of the party MUST accept the positions of the radical members. It is rightly and validly decried as being terrible politics and horrible for the country...when it is done by "the other guys".

It is just "party discipline" when you do it, of course.

[Razgovory]

Berkut, you need to find out what "fringe" means.

[Admiral Yi]

Opposition to the Iraq War and support for the public option are not what I would call fringe positions, but I'm not sure how they're part of core values either.

[Razgovory]

How do we determine core values Yi?  This is not a gotcha question, I'm just curious what your answer would be.

[Admiral Yi]

Are you asking how someone decides what their own core values are, or are you asking how we determine what someone else's core values are?

[Razgovory]

Are you asking how someone decides what their own core values are, or are you asking how we determine what someone else's core values are?

Of a party.

[Admiral Yi]

Of a party.

That's not an answer to my question.

[Razgovory]

Of a party.

That's not an answer to my question.

  I was asking how you can tell what are the core values of a political party.  Did I write something strange or something?

[Admiral Yi]

  I was asking how you can tell what are the core values of a political party.  Did I write something strange or something?

It wasn't clear in your original question whether "we" was the party or an observer.

As an observer, you look for principles that don't change with the situation.

[grumbler]

  I was asking how you can tell what are the core values of a political party.  Did I write something strange or something?

It wasn't clear in your original question whether "we" was the party or an observer.

As an observer, you look for principles that don't change with the situation.

[Habbaku]

  I was asking how you can tell what are the core values of a political party.  Did I write something strange or something?

It wasn't clear in your original question whether "we" was the party or an observer.

As an observer, you look for principles that don't change with the situation.

[katmai]

Assholes, the lot of you.

[Ed Anger]

Assholes, the lot of you.

[Jacob]

For what it's worth DGuller, I find Berkut and grumbler's characterization of you and your posts pretty inaccurate.

[Barrister]

Assholes, the lot of you.

Look who is talking.