Syria Disintegrating: Part 2

[Syt]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/05/turkey-says-russian-warplane-violated-airspace

Turkey says Russian warplane violated its airspace

Ankara lodges formal complaint with Russians after incident near Syrian border, in which Russian plane was intercepted by F-16 jets

Turkey says its military intercepted a Russian fighter plane that had violated the country's airspace while apparently flying a sortie over Syria – an incident that risked further inflaming tensions days after Russia's military intervention began.

Turkey's ministry of foreign affairs said two F-16 fighter jets intercepted the Russian plane while it was flying south of Hatay, a province that borders Syria, on Saturday.

Ankara summoned Russia's ambassador to the country and "strongly protested" about the violation. Turkey urged that there be no repeat of the incident and it was made clear that Russia would be blamed for any further escalation.

Turkey also lodged a formal protest with Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and said it would consult with its Nato allies about the implications of the incident.

Richard Moore, the UK's ambassador to Turkey, said: "Russia's incursion into Turkish airspace is reckless and worrying. UK, and its other Nato allies, stand shoulder to shoulder with Turkey."

Russia began airstrikes in Syria last week in defence of its embattled dictator, Bashar al-Assad. The raids have primarily targeted opposition fighters battling to topple Assad while drawing closer to his stronghold of Latakia, as well as areas controlled by Islamist rebels and the al-Nusra Front, al-Qaida's wing in Syria.

Russia's defence ministry said its airforce had made 25 flights in Syria during the past 24 hours and hit nine Islamic State targets there.

Turkey opposes the Russian intervention. President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's government has insisted on Assad's departure as a prelude to resolving the crisis, and has backed a range of rebel groups fighting to overthrow him.

"Assad has committed state terrorism, and unfortunately you find Russia and Iran defending [him]," Erdoğan was quoted by the Hürriyet newspaper as telling a crowd of supporters in Strasbourg, France, late on Sunday.

"Those countries that collaborate with the regime will account for it in history," he said.

[KRonn]

That would be cutting and running on the Kurds,

and not for the first time either.

The Kurds better get a real state out of all this.

I'm kind of thinking that a separate Kurdish state is now or going to be de facto. Part of the reasoning is since  Iraq is so allied to Iran, worsening divisions within Iraq. Kurdistan seems a bit of a poor step-sibling in the whole thing, not getting the weapons/supplies they need from the central government. Plus they're heavily fighting ISIS which would seem to also give them more impetus to go their own way.

[Duque de Bragança]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/05/turkey-says-russian-warplane-violated-airspace

Turkey says Russian warplane violated its airspace

Ankara lodges formal complaint with Russians after incident near Syrian border, in which Russian plane was intercepted by F-16 jets

Turkey says its military intercepted a Russian fighter plane that had violated the country's airspace while apparently flying a sortie over Syria – an incident that risked further inflaming tensions days after Russia's military intervention began.

Turkey's ministry of foreign affairs said two F-16 fighter jets intercepted the Russian plane while it was flying south of Hatay, a province that borders Syria, on Saturday.

Ankara summoned Russia's ambassador to the country and "strongly protested" about the violation. Turkey urged that there be no repeat of the incident and it was made clear that Russia would be blamed for any further escalation.

Turkey also lodged a formal protest with Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and said it would consult with its Nato allies about the implications of the incident.

Richard Moore, the UK's ambassador to Turkey, said: "Russia's incursion into Turkish airspace is reckless and worrying. UK, and its other Nato allies, stand shoulder to shoulder with Turkey."

Russia began airstrikes in Syria last week in defence of its embattled dictator, Bashar al-Assad. The raids have primarily targeted opposition fighters battling to topple Assad while drawing closer to his stronghold of Latakia, as well as areas controlled by Islamist rebels and the al-Nusra Front, al-Qaida's wing in Syria.

Russia's defence ministry said its airforce had made 25 flights in Syria during the past 24 hours and hit nine Islamic State targets there.

Turkey opposes the Russian intervention. President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's government has insisted on Assad's departure as a prelude to resolving the crisis, and has backed a range of rebel groups fighting to overthrow him.

"Assad has committed state terrorism, and unfortunately you find Russia and Iran defending [him]," Erdoğan was quoted by the Hürriyet newspaper as telling a crowd of supporters in Strasbourg, France, late on Sunday.

"Those countries that collaborate with the regime will account for it in history," he said.

Elections soon in Turkey, so why not Strasbourg with its "Citizen meeting against terrorism" (lots of Turks in Alsace probably thought it was still Germany back then  ), where only PKK is mentioned, not Daesh, before going to Brussels for another round of talks with the "refugee" blackmail card to play vs the Europeans. Great. The Alevi counter-demonstration only had 1500 people vs 10 to 12 thousand people. Next round in Vienna or Berlin or did he go there before?
Islamo-nationalist frenzy according to the French press, even Le Monde (centre-left/champagne left) e.g comparing the fight against the PKK or Kurds it seems with Saladin vs the Crusaders, the conquest of Constantinople, or the Gallipoli campaign.

http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2015/10/04/a-strasbourg-l-appel-a-l-unite-turque-d-erdogan-devant-la-diaspora_4782282_3214.html

PS: nice tidbit I just saw, sexes were segregated, men on one side, women on another, during the political meeting, in good AKP fashion, Allahu Akbar!

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/europe/erdogan-se-paie-un-meeting-electoral-a-strasbourg_1722301.html

[The Minsky Moment]

"The Kurds" are a pretty broad group and I'm not sure they're necessarily our friends. For instance, the PKK were commies.

USA is fine with Commies now, now that Russia and China went corporatist.

[Eddie Teach]

"The Kurds" are a pretty broad group and I'm not sure they're necessarily our friends. For instance, the PKK were commies.

USA is fine with Commies now, now that Russia and China went corporatist.

We haven't lifted the embargo against Cuba yet.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/05/turkey-says-russian-warplane-violated-airspace

Turkey says Russian warplane violated its airspace

Ankara lodges formal complaint with Russians after incident near Syrian border, in which Russian plane was intercepted by F-16 jets

Turkey says its military intercepted a Russian fighter plane that had violated the country's airspace while apparently flying a sortie over Syria – an incident that risked further inflaming tensions days after Russia's military intervention began.

Turkey's ministry of foreign affairs said two F-16 fighter jets intercepted the Russian plane while it was flying south of Hatay, a province that borders Syria, on Saturday.

Ankara summoned Russia's ambassador to the country and "strongly protested" about the violation. Turkey urged that there be no repeat of the incident and it was made clear that Russia would be blamed for any further escalation.

Turkey also lodged a formal protest with Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and said it would consult with its Nato allies about the implications of the incident.

Richard Moore, the UK's ambassador to Turkey, said: "Russia's incursion into Turkish airspace is reckless and worrying. UK, and its other Nato allies, stand shoulder to shoulder with Turkey."

Russia began airstrikes in Syria last week in defence of its embattled dictator, Bashar al-Assad. The raids have primarily targeted opposition fighters battling to topple Assad while drawing closer to his stronghold of Latakia, as well as areas controlled by Islamist rebels and the al-Nusra Front, al-Qaida's wing in Syria.

Russia's defence ministry said its airforce had made 25 flights in Syria during the past 24 hours and hit nine Islamic State targets there.

Turkey opposes the Russian intervention. President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's government has insisted on Assad's departure as a prelude to resolving the crisis, and has backed a range of rebel groups fighting to overthrow him.

"Assad has committed state terrorism, and unfortunately you find Russia and Iran defending [him]," Erdoğan was quoted by the Hürriyet newspaper as telling a crowd of supporters in Strasbourg, France, late on Sunday.

"Those countries that collaborate with the regime will account for it in history," he said.

Elections soon in Turkey, so why not Strasbourg with its "Citizen meeting against terrorism" (lots of Turks in Alsace probably thought it was still Germany back then  ), where only PKK is mentioned, not Daesh, before going to Brussels for another round of talks with the "refugee" blackmail card to play vs the European. Great. The Alevi counter-demonstration only had 1500 people vs 10 to 12 thousand people. Next round in Vienna or Berlin or did he go there before?
Islamo-nationalist frenzy according to the French press, even Le Monde (center-left/champagne left) e.g comparing the fight against the PKK or Kurds it seems with Saladin vs the Crusaders, the conquest of Constantinople, or the Gallipoli campaign.

http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2015/10/04/a-strasbourg-l-appel-a-l-unite-turque-d-erdogan-devant-la-diaspora_4782282_3214.html

PS: nice tidbit I just saw, sexes were segregated, men on one side, women on another, during the political meeting, in good AKP fashion, Allahu Akbar!

http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/europe/erdogan-se-paie-un-meeting-electoral-a-strasbourg_1722301.html

frankly Erdogan shouldn't be allowed to do these pre-election meetings. Not in Europe.

[Malthus]

"The Kurds" are a pretty broad group and I'm not sure they're necessarily our friends. For instance, the PKK were commies.

USA is fine with Commies now, now that Russia and China went corporatist.

We haven't lifted the embargo against Cuba yet.

The US still hasn't forgiven Cuba from expropriating its gangsters' hard-earned casinos. 

[Valmy]

The US still hasn't forgiven Cuba from expropriating its gangsters' hard-earned casinos. 

Some sins can never be washed away Malthus.

[Razgovory]

"The Kurds" are a pretty broad group and I'm not sure they're necessarily our friends. For instance, the PKK were commies.

USA is fine with Commies now, now that Russia and China went corporatist.

The PKK has pretty much given up communism.  They were put on the terrorist watchlist after they gave up on that stupid ideology.  Probably to appease the Turks somehow.

[Razgovory]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/05/turkey-says-russian-warplane-violated-airspace

Turkey says Russian warplane violated its airspace

Ankara lodges formal complaint with Russians after incident near Syrian border, in which Russian plane was intercepted by F-16 jets

Turkey says its military intercepted a Russian fighter plane that had violated the country's airspace while apparently flying a sortie over Syria – an incident that risked further inflaming tensions days after Russia's military intervention began.

Turkey's ministry of foreign affairs said two F-16 fighter jets intercepted the Russian plane while it was flying south of Hatay, a province that borders Syria, on Saturday.

Ankara summoned Russia's ambassador to the country and "strongly protested" about the violation. Turkey urged that there be no repeat of the incident and it was made clear that Russia would be blamed for any further escalation.

Turkey also lodged a formal protest with Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and said it would consult with its Nato allies about the implications of the incident.

Richard Moore, the UK's ambassador to Turkey, said: "Russia's incursion into Turkish airspace is reckless and worrying. UK, and its other Nato allies, stand shoulder to shoulder with Turkey."

Russia began airstrikes in Syria last week in defence of its embattled dictator, Bashar al-Assad. The raids have primarily targeted opposition fighters battling to topple Assad while drawing closer to his stronghold of Latakia, as well as areas controlled by Islamist rebels and the al-Nusra Front, al-Qaida's wing in Syria.

Russia's defence ministry said its airforce had made 25 flights in Syria during the past 24 hours and hit nine Islamic State targets there.

Turkey opposes the Russian intervention. President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's government has insisted on Assad's departure as a prelude to resolving the crisis, and has backed a range of rebel groups fighting to overthrow him.

"Assad has committed state terrorism, and unfortunately you find Russia and Iran defending [him]," Erdoğan was quoted by the Hürriyet newspaper as telling a crowd of supporters in Strasbourg, France, late on Sunday.

"Those countries that collaborate with the regime will account for it in history," he said.

This is more serious.  Turkey is NATO and if sufficiently provoked could theoretically invoke article five of the treaty.  Pretty much all Western countries would be legally bound to fight the Russians.

[mongers]

Saw some interviews with internal Syrian refugees, one said he's spoken to his cousin via whatsapp, who's still in the family village East of Raqqa, who said IS fighters have disappeared from the villages in the last few days, some people are now even daring to sell and smoke cigarettes.

Now I don't take this as evidence that Russian air strikes are having an impact, though other refugees welcomed them. Maybe ir 'confirms' some of what the Russian military spokesman said about Dash fleeing, but I'd take that with a big pinch of salt. Maybe it's a consequence of US air strikes or a combination of both.
Yet again perhaps it's just IS redeploying forces for another surprise attack somewhere else, as they've shown themselves capable of pulling off?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Saw some interviews with internal Syrian refugees, one said he's spoken to his cousin via whatsapp, who's still in the family village East of Raqqa, who said IS fighters have disappeared from the villages in the last few days, some people are now even daring to sell and smoke cigarettes.

Now I don't take this as evidence that Russian air strikes are having an impact, though other refugees welcomed them. Maybe ir 'confirms' some of what the Russian military spokesman said about Dash fleeing, but I'd take that with a big pinch of salt. Maybe it's a consequence of US air strikes or a combination of both.
Yet again perhaps it's just IS redeploying forces for another surprise attack somewhere else, as they've shown themselves capable of pulling off?

A reporter who travelled the length of the frontline said that there's far far far less foreign fighters attacking (the Kurdish front) compared to a few months back. It seems to be mainly locals manning the frontline now. Might mean something but one swallow doesn't make summmer and all that.

[viper37]

This is more serious.  Turkey is NATO and if sufficiently provoked could theoretically invoke article five of the treaty.  Pretty much all Western countries would be legally bound to fight the Russians.

Russia is betting that even if it comes to that, the rest of NATO would find ways to refuse action, putting a dent in NATO (as in, who will be next?).

[viper37]

Saw some interviews with internal Syrian refugees, one said he's spoken to his cousin via whatsapp, who's still in the family village East of Raqqa, who said IS fighters have disappeared from the villages in the last few days, some people are now even daring to sell and smoke cigarettes.

Now I don't take this as evidence that Russian air strikes are having an impact, though other refugees welcomed them. Maybe ir 'confirms' some of what the Russian military spokesman said about Dash fleeing, but I'd take that with a big pinch of salt. Maybe it's a consequence of US air strikes or a combination of both.
Yet again perhaps it's just IS redeploying forces for another surprise attack somewhere else, as they've shown themselves capable of pulling off?

Most reports say the Russians are mostly striking against US backed rebels instead of ISIS.  And the US did make its plans public about intensifying airstrikes to help the Kurds advance.  So maybe they are simply regrouping, falling back to defensive lines they already prepared.

[alfred russel]

Most reports say the Russians are mostly striking against US backed rebels instead of ISIS.

Holy shit. The brunt of a neo Soviet attack borne by just 5 guys. They are true heroes.