Raz: Crippled.

[Barrister]

Try to get a double blind randomized control study for effectiveness on most of their "procedures". It never happens because they don't want their practices put under the same microscope of scrutiny that aspirin or any other medical intervention is put under. They do not believe in the scientific method.

How would you do a double-blind study of chiropractic procedures?  What would you do to the control group, crack their knuckles?

Essentially, yeah. You'd use sham procedures.

It's interesting.  I thought to myself "surely someone must have done such a research study on the effects of chiro".

But a few minutes of web searching shows - nope.  They haen't.  There are studies that compare the effects of chiro manipulation to other therapies (with the result being that chiro manipulation is no more effective than anything else) but nothing that compares it to, well, doing nothing.

[grumbler]

I think you are over analyzing what he posted.

I don't think he is analyzing what I wrote at all.  He just saw that I had posted, and proceeded with a diatribe that had nothing to do with what I said, and everything to do with what he wanted to spew at the slightest provocation.

I used a chiropractor once, after my doctor's pharma-based approach did nothing over a long period of time.  The c'practor described what he was going to do, and why, and how long it would take, and everything went exactly as described.  Ten treatments later, I was done, and the problem hasn't recurred in the last 15 years.  I can't ask for more than that.  If that's a scam, then I am in favor of those kinds of scams.  The MD-based pain-killers-and-muscle-relaxors scam wasn't so good a scam as the chiropractor one, other than being more expensive.

[DGuller]

Try to get a double blind randomized control study for effectiveness on most of their "procedures". It never happens because they don't want their practices put under the same microscope of scrutiny that aspirin or any other medical intervention is put under. They do not believe in the scientific method.

How would you do a double-blind study of chiropractic procedures?  What would you do to the control group, crack their knuckles?

Essentially, yeah. You'd use sham procedures.

I see at least two obvious problems.  How would control group participants be fooled?  It's hard to perceive a spine being cracked without having your spine cracked.  Secondly, double-blind means that those administering treatment should be unaware as well.  How can someone administering spinal adjustment ever be unaware of whether he's supposed to do the real thing, or crack just for show?

[Barrister]

I think you are over analyzing what he posted.

I don't think he is analyzing what I wrote at all.  He just saw that I had posted, and proceeded with a diatribe that had nothing to do with what I said, and everything to do with what he wanted to spew at the slightest provocation.

I used a chiropractor once, after my doctor's pharma-based approach did nothing over a long period of time.  The c'practor described what he was going to do, and why, and how long it would take, and everything went exactly as described.  Ten treatments later, I was done, and the problem hasn't recurred in the last 15 years.  I can't ask for more than that.  If that's a scam, then I am in favor of those kinds of scams.  The MD-based pain-killers-and-muscle-relaxors scam wasn't so good a scam as the chiropractor one, other than being more expensive.

I'm very happy that this worked out well for you grumbler. 

I know several people who have had very positive experiences in dealing with chiros as well.

The problem is that there are people who also swear by the healing power of prayer, or tiger penises, or whatnot.  That's why we rely on Fate's new favourite phrase "evidence-based" treatments.

The studies done don't seem to support chiro manipulation as having any particular benefit.

Here's the best study I could find for free online.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447290/

[Razgovory]

What I've been told by some of the doctors is that this kind of thing tends to work itself out.  Whether it be a muscular thing or a nerve thing.  If Grumbler had the same thing as I did, then it's very likely his would have healed over time as well.  If true, then he was scammed. 

It's interesting that many people who scoff at religion (My sister, Grumbler), have no problem with unscientific treatments.

[Barrister]

What I've been told by some of the doctors is that this kind of thing tends to work itself out.  Whether it be a muscular thing or a nerve thing.  If Grumbler had the same thing as I did, then it's very likely his would have healed over time as well.  If true, then he was scammed. 

It's interesting that many people who scoff at religion (My sister, Grumbler), have no problem with unscientific treatments.

I don't think it's fair to say he was "scammed".  His back hurt, he went to a chiro after the doctor wasn't able to treat his back, and after his treatments his back felt better.  It's all very logical from grumbles point of view.

[Razgovory]

Lots of things are logical if you have a poor sense of cause and effect.

[Barrister]

Lots of things are logical if you have a poor sense of cause and effect.

The placebo effect is still an example of cause and effect.

[Ed Anger]

Holy hell, my sciatica flared up today. Flexaril time.

And painkillers in reserve.

[CountDeMoney]

What I've been told by some of the doctors is that this kind of thing tends to work itself out.  Whether it be a muscular thing or a nerve thing. 

Yeah, it'll work itself out...months from now.  If it's simply not masked by something else, like your musculature overcompensating for it.  You'll never even realize how much discomfort you're in.

If Grumbler had the same thing as I did, then it's very likely his would have healed over time as well.  If true, then he was scammed. 

It's interesting that many people who scoff at religion (My sister, Grumbler), have no problem with unscientific treatments.

Soft tissue massage and manipulation works.  But if you're not going to do anything about other than pop pills, the STFU and let this thread die.  I'm tired of hearing fucking your whining.

[Razgovory]

You don't have to come here.

[merithyn]

Not at all. Hearing your hippy thoughts on medicine:

Hippy thoughts?  Well, as I'm not a hippy, I find it hard to believe that I think like one, but if you say so.

[Eddie Teach]

A lippy hippie?

[Razgovory]

A lippy hippie?

A dippy lippy hippy

[CountDeMoney]

You don't have to come here.

You're in my litter box, kitten.  So stop kicking it out on the floor.