Bismark: The Final Countdown

[Tonitrus]

But would radio matter?

"Hi, we are fellow Germans from the future...except in our time, Germany is run by these Nazi guys led by a Charlie Chaplin impersonator, how about we help you blow away the stupid brits with our super battleship and keep the Kaiser in charge?"

[Viking]

Imperial Ensign



3rd Reich Ensign

I think there would be some confusion but mainly wondering what ship that was and why was it firing at the british. The ensigns would have been well out of sight and the only british ships that the bismark could have identified by profile would have been the four Queen Elizabeth class BBs.

The Bismark would not have know where it was and what the time was, so no knowledge of the historical battle could really have been used to figure out who was who apart from the QEs. The Bismark did not have the german naval codes so they would have to send on a open frequency and radio messages would probably just have been disregarded. From what I know about jutland they still used flag signalling for coordination on both sides. The Bismark almost certainly did not know the german flag codes, though Lutjens was a torpedo boat commander during WWI so he might remember the codes of 20 years earlier.

Wiki doesn't give Bismark a fire control radar, but rather a search radar.

Jutland basically consists of the british outmaneuvering the germans again and again only to have the germans fire be much more accurate and devastating. Adding a BB 50% bigger than the QEs with much better fire control and situation awareness which tries to kill the british ships it can identify will do damage, but I suspect the Imperial German response to seeing a fucking huge ship will be to assume it is british and to run back to Kiel.

It should be pretty obvious that the Bismark could not possibly communicate with the Hochseeflotte.

[CountDeMoney]

That'd be the same problem with the Nimitz...sure the F-14s could splash Zero's at will, but when they run out of missiles and ammo, they're just glorified recon planes.

Though it would probably be quite simple for 1941 U.S.A. to replicate the cannon ammo on the F-14s, the missiles would take a bit more work.

That, and the disparity with this analogy....the U.S.A. won anyway, Nimitz or no.   

The Nimitz air group would run out of jet fuel before running out of 20mm (that's what the phalaxes used as well, and the carrier had an essentially infinite supply).

The Bismarck, though, has a finite number of 15" shells - around 200 salvos' worth.  Once that's gone, she is done.

Ah, my friend...but were the 1st generation of Phalanx CIWS guns deployed in time onto the Nimitz for the December 1980 timeframe for The Final Countdown?



Looks like I have a good reason to watch it tonight.

[Viking]

That'd be the same problem with the Nimitz...sure the F-14s could splash Zero's at will, but when they run out of missiles and ammo, they're just glorified recon planes.

Though it would probably be quite simple for 1941 U.S.A. to replicate the cannon ammo on the F-14s, the missiles would take a bit more work.

That, and the disparity with this analogy....the U.S.A. won anyway, Nimitz or no.   

The Nimitz air group would run out of jet fuel before running out of 20mm (that's what the phalaxes used as well, and the carrier had an essentially infinite supply).

The Bismarck, though, has a finite number of 15" shells - around 200 salvos' worth.  Once that's gone, she is done.

1941 USA could make kerosene and 1915 Germany could make 15" shells, in fact both were producing each, respectively, at the time.

[jimmy olsen]

The ship's name was Bismarck, not Bismark. Pretend that it was named for the capital of North Dakota, in case you need a local reference. But I am sure you are one of those people that write Adolph instead of Adolf for no particular reason too.

Not letting you get away with deleting that.

Adolph just looks better. 

[The Brain]

As an anime ship with anime crew the Bismarck would be fired on vigorously by both sides until sunk.

[Tonitrus]

As an anime ship with anime crew the Bismarck would be fired on vigorously by both sides until sunk.

[timmah] What if the Yamato from Star Blazers came back in time to the Battle of Leyte Gulf!  [/timmah]

[jimmy olsen]

I think there would be some confusion but mainly wondering what ship that was and why was it firing at the british. The ensigns would have been well out of sight and the only british ships that the bismark could have identified by profile would have been the four Queen Elizabeth class BBs.

The Bismark would not have know where it was and what the time was, so no knowledge of the historical battle could really have been used to figure out who was who apart from the QEs. The Bismark did not have the german naval codes so they would have to send on a open frequency and radio messages would probably just have been disregarded. From what I know about jutland they still used flag signalling for coordination on both sides. The Bismark almost certainly did not know the german flag codes, though Lutjens was a torpedo boat commander during WWI so he might remember the codes of 20 years earlier.

Wiki doesn't give Bismark a fire control radar, but rather a search radar.

Jutland basically consists of the british outmaneuvering the germans again and again only to have the germans fire be much more accurate and devastating. Adding a BB 50% bigger than the QEs with much better fire control and situation awareness which tries to kill the british ships it can identify will do damage, but I suspect the Imperial German response to seeing a fucking huge ship will be to assume it is british and to run back to Kiel.

It should be pretty obvious that the Bismark could not possibly communicate with the Hochseeflotte.

If it sinks a few British battleships that'll be enough to make it a clear cut German victory wouldn't it? British losses in tonnage were nearly twice as much as Germany's already.

After that, if it hasn't got in contact with the HSF, what does it do? Flee to the Neatherlands and get in touch with the German embassy to explain what's going on?

[Tonitrus]

Also, what will Young Lutjens make of all this.   

[Tonitrus]

Also, this argument is moot anyway...as we all know from the film, the time storm has a 100% record of sending the ship back to its proper time just before the climatic battle begins.  So...

- Jutland occurs as normal.
- Bismark is still growing barnacles under the Atlantic.
- Martin Sheen still plays the President in the "The West Wing".

[jimmy olsen]

Also, this argument is moot anyway...as we all know from the film, the time storm has a 100% record of sending the ship back to its proper time just before the climatic battle begins.  So...

I specified this would not happen in the opening post.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Another thing about the Final Countdown, is the film never went as far as to find out what the WWII-era peeps would think about a future-weapon showing up in their time.  What would the German fleet's response be to a big, unknown battleship with a swastika on it?

Sure, they might communicate in German on the radio (if that would work), but would you believe they're from the future, or blow it up in case it's some British trick?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Time

[Neil]

If it sinks a few British battleships that'll be enough to make it a clear cut German victory wouldn't it? British losses in tonnage were nearly twice as much as Germany's already.

See, it doesn't really matter how many ships Bismarck sinks unless she sinks a large portion of the RN battlefleet, which is somewhat unlikely.  They only had ammunition for about 100 salvos, and once that's gone, it's gone.  Even if you can rig up 15" shells from the Badens, the barrels are going to wear out, and those are irreplaceable.  Fuel oil is also going to be an issue.

If the battle ends and  the British retain a numerical superiority over the Germans, the British still win.

[Ed Anger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Time

[Neil]

I think there would be some confusion but mainly wondering what ship that was and why was it firing at the british. The ensigns would have been well out of sight and the only british ships that the bismark could have identified by profile would have been the four Queen Elizabeth class BBs.

British ships have a very distinctive profile though.

The Bismark did not have the german naval codes so they would have to send on a open frequency and radio messages would probably just have been disregarded. From what I know about jutland they still used flag signalling for coordination on both sides. The Bismark almost certainly did not know the german flag codes, though Lutjens was a torpedo boat commander during WWI so he might remember the codes of 20 years earlier.

Also, Captain Lindemann was a signals officer on a battleship during the war.

Wiki doesn't give Bismark a fire control radar, but rather a search radar.

Bismarck's radar was usable as a tool to help with ranging, but it wasn't really useful for fire control in the usual sense of the word.